Is there a way to limit.....

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Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 12:13:10 PM

DWReese

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This has bothered me a little for a while, so I figured that maybe I could ask the question here:

It was said when the game first came out that it was designed around assigning units to missions, and having the game move the units rather than doing it manually.

So, is there a way to limit a patrol aircraft from flying toward a known enemy ship within a patrol zone?

Example:
I have a specific rectangular-shaped patrol zone and have assigned a P-3 to a Maritime Surveillance Mission.
A Modified Kashin, with active radar, has been located and identified (via ELINT and radar) within the zone by the P-3.
A strike mission (performed by other aircraft) has been requested, but they are actually irrelevant here.
While waiting for the strike aircraft to arrive, the P-3 continues to fly around, patrolling in the zone.
For whatever reason, the AI eventually assigns the patrol aircraft to ignore the presence of the known enemy ship and plot a course to fly toward it during the course of its assigned surveillance mission.
Obviously, as soon as the surveillance aircraft (P-3) gets close enough, the ship (Mod Kashin) shoots at, and eventually kills the P-3.
In fact, even after sometimes being fortunate enough to evade the first SAMs, the P-3 still continues on the same designated path.
As I said, eventually, the surveillance aircraft (the P-3 in this case) is destroyed.

So, is there a way to create some sort of a barrier around the Kashin (or any known ship) so that the AI doesn't plot a course whereby the surveillance aircraft flies into harm's way?

It would really be a nice feature to be able to apply a "moving" zone that is centered around a known enemy ship, which surrounds the moving enemy ships, and that keeps planes from flying into harm's way.

It's just a thought.

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 12:34:01 PM

Eggstor

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Perhaps a no-nav zone with the reference points relative to the Kashin's position? I don't know if that would adversely affect your strike mission though.

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 2:39:18 PM

Gunner98

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I think Eggstor hit on it.

A no-Nav zone with relative RPs. As long as you keep the Kashin properly identified the RPs should follow it, but this may be a problem point, may be able to just put a non moving wall around the Kashin. Of course you'll have to remove it as your strike approaches.

For that matter you could change the PZ for your P-3, add a few RPs to it and have it 'horseshoe' around the target.

I agree in principle that the game should be a mission based sim with minimal micromanagement but when you ID a contact there is a need for player intervention.

B

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 3:08:43 PM

stww2

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I don't think you can make RP's relative to non-friendly contacts, unfortunately. A no-nav zone would keep the P-3 out of harms way but you would have to manually update the waypoints as the Kashin moved.

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 5:36:42 PM

Parel803

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Should the StandOff Distance not taking care of this kind of situations?
regards GJ

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 5:58:40 PM

Kushan04

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stww2
I don't think you can make RP's relative to non-friendly contacts, unfortunately. A no-nav zone would keep the P-3 out of harms way but you would have to manually update the waypoints as the Kashin moved.

You are correct, you cannot make RPS relative to non-friendly targets. It does make sense why not, if the target should be lost/dropped the RPs would still be moving thus telling you where the unit is.

If you want to use no-nav zones, my suggestion would be to make the zone extend along the project course of the unit you want to avoid. That will avoid having to shuffle the RPs constantly.

I normally just take manual control of a unit and direct it around the enemy unit or somewhere else, while leaving it assigned to the mission.

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 6:10:11 PM

DWReese

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stww2 is correct. I don't believe that you can not create Reference Points for an opposition unit. At least not that I know of. I guess that this is what I am basically asking for. It would be nice to create a no nav zone around an enemy unit which is moving. It might be interesting. If so, then you wouldn't have to manually move your own unit unit. The no nav zone would keep the plane safe without having to micromanage it. It's just a thought.

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Post #: 7

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 6:39:31 PM

Randomizer

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You used to be able to set reference points relative to spotted units in CMANO and these would follow the target as long as the contact remained solid. Once target was lost the reference points would stop following. Test it, am pretty sure that it still works because I have used a special side containing reference points only for setting up actions like high-seas boarding, visits and searches without cluttering up the map with too many reference points.

-C

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 6:43:15 PM

stilesw

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Actually there is a way (sort of ) to do this.

In the attached scenario the Blue side F-15 is flying NE. It will enter a zone around a Red aircraft created on the Red side. When it enters the zone a msg will be displayed and the F-15 will receive orders to RTB.

Not suitable for every action but you can use zone entry as a trigger for both Blue and Red sides.

-WS

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Post #: 9

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 6:44:09 PM

DWReese

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I have tried numerous ways to do this, but I failed each time. Perhaps someone else knows of another way, but I couldn't make it happen. It would be a neat, and useful feature, if it can be done.

(in reply to Randomizer)

Post #: 10

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 6:47:41 PM

stilesw

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For some reason the Zone Test scenario won't upload and I cannot edit the above post. I'll try a little later.

-WS

< Message edited by stilesw -- 11/9/2021 6:48:47 PM >

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~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

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Post #: 11

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 7:59:31 PM

Randomizer

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Here's a test scenario where a Kashin Class destroyer is shadowing USS Constellation in a tattletail role. The side postures are unfriendly-unfriendly. The mission reference points are relative to and following the carrier. So long as the Kashin remains in contact it should stay in its patrol box. I selected Sea Control patrol but ASuW would probably have worked a bit better.

Run the mission from side Shadow and you will see the mission box follows the carrier.

Uncheck all the investigate boxes in the mission editor.

When setting up the mission, as soon as you select the unfriendly target as relative or fixed point, the side selection switched to the Carrier side uncommanded as soon as the mission screen opened. Change sides and select the Kashin and add it to the mission.

This actually used to work much better in CMANO.

-C

Attachment (1)

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 8:09:27 PM

thewood1

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I use a similar method for "civilian" fishing boats to spy on enemy naval units. I create a third side for spy trawlers allied with the red side. Then use the scenario editor to place rp's on the blue side that the spy ship follows. Because its not a red side unit, the blue side has to make an explicit order to kill it. I've played around with point impacts on choosing that path.

You could do the same thing in lua on the fly as units are detected also. It would work with using no nav zones also.

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RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/9/2021 10:03:50 PM

DWReese

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This is very interesting. I'm going to have to play around with it, but it does seem to work as described. It does actually prevent the surveillance plane from getting too close to the enemy, but this could be very useful in other areas.

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Post #: 14

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/10/2021 1:19:20 PM

stilesw

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From: Hansville, WA, USA
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Finally seems to have uploaded. Here is the small scenario I described above.

-WS

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 15

RE: Is there a way to limit..... - 11/10/2021 4:37:27 PM

DWReese

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Thanks, Wayne, I'm trying it out right now.

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Post #: 16