Doubt. Enemy fire when you move

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Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/9/2021 7:32:09 PM

voroshilov17

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/7/2021
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Hello everyone

As you know, I am quite noob here and I have searched about this topic in the forum as well as in the manual and I haven`t find anything diaphanously clear, so here I ask!

I have noticed that when you move a unit (both naval or land one) through a hex that is within the range (correct me if I'm wrong) of a enemy's fire range, my unit will be fired everytime. That is called interdiction I guess.

This happens:
When you move a land/naval unit, and you receive fire from enemy land units, enemy air units or enemy naval units.

That being said.
1-As a player, is there any way of knowing or guessing in advance if the enemy will fire automatically your moving troops? Is there any hint of guessing it prior to moving?

2-Similar to the question before. If a moving unit enters an area within the range of a enemy unit, is this enemy unit ALWAYS going to fire that moving unit? Is that a question of probability? Do a unit need some other special conditions to fullfill (attack power or whatever) in order to be able to fire enemy moving units, or is going to do it ALWAYS as long as it has the range to do it?

3-Similar to the question above. If I have units that can fire in a range, are those going to fire ALWAYS the moving enemy units withing their range or do I have to set them in a special state?

Thank you a lot!

Post #: 1

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/9/2021 10:07:12 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

Hello everyone

As you know, I am quite noob here and I have searched about this topic in the forum as well as in the manual and I haven`t find anything diaphanously clear, so here I ask!

I have noticed that when you move a unit (both naval or land one) through a hex that is within the range (correct me if I'm wrong) of a enemy's fire range, my unit will be fired everytime. That is called interdiction I guess.

This happens:
When you move a land/naval unit, and you receive fire from enemy land units, enemy air units or enemy naval units.

That being said.
1-As a player, is there any way of knowing or guessing in advance if the enemy will fire automatically your moving troops? Is there any hint of guessing it prior to moving?

2-Similar to the question before. If a moving unit enters an area within the range of a enemy unit, is this enemy unit ALWAYS going to fire that moving unit? Is that a question of probability? Do a unit need some other special conditions to fullfill (attack power or whatever) in order to be able to fire enemy moving units, or is going to do it ALWAYS as long as it has the range to do it?

3-Similar to the question above. If I have units that can fire in a range, are those going to fire ALWAYS the moving enemy units withing their range or do I have to set them in a special state?

A lot of misunderstanding above.

First, let's separate land from naval, because they are handled very differently.

Land units are subject to interdiction only by enemy air units set to "Interdiction". The chance of being so interdicted is related to the enemy interdiction level, shown in the Air Report.

Land units are subject to disengagement attacks if they try to exit a hex adjacent to an enemy unit, without a covering unit left behind. Chance of suffering such an attack is dependent upon the relative strength and recon level of the enemy unit the friendly unit is moving away from.

Naval and embarked units are subject to interdiction by air units set to "Naval Interdiction", all surface naval, and coastal artillery units. Chance of interdiction by air units is dependent upon how much air is in range and how many friendly targets are in range. Friendly carrier naval that is carrier air interdicted will return a counter strike. Interdiction by surface naval and coastal units is automatic. Friendly naval that is interdicted will return counterbattery fire.

< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 11/10/2021 3:06:03 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 2

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/9/2021 10:56:13 PM

rhinobones

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Land units are subject to disengagement attacks if . . .

Slight, but important clarification. In some scenarios disengagement attacks are disabled. If so, it should be noted in the scenario briefing.

Regards

_____________________________

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Post #: 3

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 11:47:58 AM

voroshilov17

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/7/2021
Status: offline

Hmm okay, I understand.
But I have noticed that my units also receive fire when they move and when there are not any enemy air units on the map.
For example in "Denmark strait" scenario, if you play as German, whenever you move any of your naval units, you receive enemy fire. And there are not any enemy air units on the map.

Same happens in the "Iwo jima" scenario. Whenever you move your naval units to the beaches, sometimes they receive enemy fire. (I guess that they receive fire from coastal artillery?)

Also, the same happens with land units of mine moving. I think they receive enemy fire from enemy art units within range. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Thanks for your repplies!

(in reply to rhinobones)

Post #: 4

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 12:01:55 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

Hmm okay, I understand.
But I have noticed that my units also receive fire when they move and when there are not any enemy air units on the map.
For example in "Denmark strait" scenario, if you play as German, whenever you move any of your naval units, you receive enemy fire. And there are not any enemy air units on the map.

Same happens in the "Iwo jima" scenario. Whenever you move your naval units to the beaches, sometimes they receive enemy fire. (I guess that they receive fire from coastal artillery?)

As per Bob:

Naval and embarked units are subject to interdiction by air units set to "Naval Interdiction", all surface naval, and coastal artillery units.

quote:

Also, the same happens with land units of mine moving. I think they receive enemy fire from enemy art units within range. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Land units will only be attacked while moving: 1) from an enemy air unit on an interdiction setting or 2) if they are subject to disengagement penalties.

The conditions for disengagement are:
1) the hex the unit is leaving is adjacent to an enemy land unit
2) The hex the unit is leaving does not contain any friendly units other than the moving unit OR the hex the unit is entering does not contain any friendly units and is also adjacent to an enemy land unit
3) disengagement penalties are not disabled for the scenario (thankyou Rhinobones)

Disengagement penalties are less likely if:
1) the target hex contains a friendly unit
2) the moving unit has an HQ or artillery icon (I believe)
3) the moving unit has a high recon rating compared to the adjacent enemy units

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 11/10/2021 3:21:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 5

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 2:27:31 PM

76mm

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How do you disable the disengagement penalties?

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Post #: 6

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 2:33:18 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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Game Options menu. Active Disengagement (on) or (off)

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A: A stick.

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Post #: 7

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 3:04:56 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

Also, the same happens with land units of mine moving. I think they receive enemy fire from enemy art units within range. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Enemy artillery does not do interdiction. However, they will join in any disengagement attack that friendly units trigger. But, remember that those are only triggered by exiting a hex adjacent to an enemy ground unit under certain circumstances.

< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 11/10/2021 3:06:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 8

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 7:40:06 PM

voroshilov17

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/7/2021
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Okay. Thank you for your repplies! I do have much clear the concepts now.

quote:

Land units will only be attacked while moving: 1) from an enemy air unit on an interdiction setting or 2) if they are subject to disengagement penalties.

I have found where does "disengage" theory explained in the manual. Is in the section 10.4.10 and it is as you repplied. Bu I still have one doubt left.

1-Is there any way of guessing the strength of the enemy disengage attack? I guess that the disengage is not a normal attack with full attack values, but what is its power more or less? What is its consequences more or less? Do I have to take it a lot into account when moving units or is it just a little attack? I guess that disengage attack will affect also my units supply level, preparation and so on. But in what amount? In any relevant amount?

quote:

Naval and embarked units are subject to interdiction by air units set to "Naval Interdiction", all surface naval, and coastal artillery units.

quote:

Interdiction by surface naval and coastal units is automatic. Friendly naval that is interdicted will return counterbattery fire.

Correct me if I am wrong. From that said by you, I guess that:
2-Any naval, embarked and coastal artillery units are subject to interdiction by enemy air units set to "Naval Interdiction" Right?

3-My naval units are ALWAYS going to receive interdiction by enemy coastal and surface naval units no matter what, no matter any special conditions. Right?

Thanks!

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 9

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/10/2021 8:31:13 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

1-Is there any way of guessing the strength of the enemy disengage attack? I guess that the disengage is not a normal attack with full attack values, but what is its power more or less? What is its consequences more or less? Do I have to take it a lot into account when moving units or is it just a little attack? I guess that disengage attack will affect also my units supply level, preparation and so on. But in what amount? In any relevant amount?

You can see the units that you will be disengaging from. Depending on FoW you may know their strengths. But you also must know that all in-range artillery will join the attack. And cooperation is not a consideration in whether they join. So...expect everything in range to join the attack.

quote:

Correct me if I am wrong. From that said by you, I guess that:
2-Any naval, embarked and coastal artillery units are subject to interdiction by enemy air units set to "Naval Interdiction" Right?

3-My naval units are ALWAYS going to receive interdiction by enemy coastal and surface naval units no matter what, no matter any special conditions. Right?

I actually had that wrong. Whether naval units interdict is dependent upon how many friendly naval targets are in range. If there are a lot around, the chance any one of them is interdicted is proportionate to the fraction they are of the total. So...to minimize naval interdiction, move as much other naval targets into range as you can before making any moves.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to voroshilov17)

Post #: 10

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/11/2021 11:59:53 AM

voroshilov17

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/7/2021
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quote:

I actually had that wrong.

The enemy units that will interdict my naval/embarked units are still going to be Air units set to naval interdiction or naval units or coastal artillery. Right?

quote:

Whether naval units interdict is dependent upon how many friendly naval targets are in range. If there are a lot around, the chance any one of them is interdicted is proportionate to the fraction they are of the total. So...to minimize naval interdiction, move as much other naval targets into range as you can before making any moves.

Hmmm I think I get it. So, the more friendly naval units are in range of interdiction, the less friendly naval units that are going to receive interdiction fire from enemy when moving, right?
But in TOAW we cannot move all units at once, so the point is to move one by one all of them into range, right? Like in Iwo jima scenario?

Thank you a lot!

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 11

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/11/2021 2:28:23 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

The enemy units that will interdict my naval/embarked units are still going to be Air units set to naval interdiction or naval units or coastal artillery. Right?

Yes.

quote:

Hmmm I think I get it. So, the more friendly naval units are in range of interdiction, the less friendly naval units that are going to receive interdiction fire from enemy when moving, right?
But in TOAW we cannot move all units at once, so the point is to move one by one all of them into range, right? Like in Iwo jima scenario?

This is all explained in section 19.6 in the manual. I can't really do better than that.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

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Post #: 12

RE: Doubt. Enemy fire when you move - 11/11/2021 4:13:57 PM

voroshilov17

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Perfect.
Thank you a lot for all the help!

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Post #: 13