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Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 4:17:52 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		In PBEM game, near the start of a campaign , 2nd time that I have a flight group which dissipear between 2 turns without any good reason. this groupplanes was not in air losses , no in reinforcement air group list , just disapear
first time we start again the same turn and the flight group was on map again Now it's just happening again with an other one, not the same group, but on nederlands isle of java again
rather boring to redo our turn each time :(

< Message edited by soloje1 -- 11/13/2021 4:19:18 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 4:58:08 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Can you post more specifics or a screenshot? There are reasons you may not see the group anymore, but need more specifics to help. Pictures would be great.

Did you try to move it by rail?

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RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 5:34:04 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Can you give us screenshots of the airgroups' screens from the tune before it/they disappear?



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RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 5:38:46 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		thank you for your answer
the 12 /16 /1941 situation the 100sqn is there at MADICEN


the 100sqd details


the turn after 17 december 41
no more squadron there


< Message edited by soloje1 -- 11/13/2021 5:45:44 PM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 4
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 5:41:23 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		and in th egroup list
on 16 december 41


100sqn is there

but on the 17 december


no any more group of wildebeest

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Post #: 5
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 5:46:49 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Which scenario are you playing? Which version of the game is this?

< Message edited by Yaab -- 11/13/2021 5:50:32 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 6:23:35 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		OK, so No.100 Sqn RAF has no withdraw date in your scenario.

In the stock allied OOB it has a withdraw date of 421215, which would appear up on the top left hand corner of the airgroup screen. So what scenario is this?

One thing we can eliminate quickly - can you open the day-before screen at Madioen, bring up the list of airgroups on base, and hover your mouse pointer over the airgroup name.

The black info tab that comes up tells you if there was a name change due. I doubt that is the problem, but without opening the scenario file, it's the quickest way to rule it out.

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Post #: 7
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 9:51:47 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		His first screenshot has the mouseover




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 10:06:07 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Check the reinforcement queue, if you moved it by rail it will show up there and it will show up much later if you withdrew it and want it to return. If not there, then check the before and after Vildebeest numbers in your pool if you disbanded it or withdrew it without it coming back. I am not stating that you did so intentionally, but things do happen.

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Post #: 9
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/13/2021 11:20:30 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		Standing down an Australian unit seems to be a risky play.
There might be an “under the hood” establishment nearby selling alcoholic beverages.

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Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

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Post #: 10
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 1:42:18 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Also, why are your Soviet air units training at only 40%? They should be training at 100%!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 11
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 8:14:50 AM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		thank you guys for all your answer

the game version is 1.8.11.26b
scenario is 001 full campaign, with no 1st historical turn and we add the modification made from a player regarding the stacking hexagone limit.
I had already the same issue few turns before with an other squadron( B17) placed also on a Java town, an other one anyway. we redid the turn and the group was again availaible

"One thing we can eliminate quickly - can you open the day-before screen at Madioen, bring up the list of airgroups on base, and hover your mouse pointer over the airgroup name."
as Goef said thats my first screen I guess, with mouse over the plane symbol .
Ihave checked the replacmement pool 60 days , no australian wildebeest there, only a Nz group coming but an other name.
in the wildebeest squadron on 17th there is one less than the 16th, can't upgrade planes at this level of the game

"Check the reinforcement queue, if you moved it by rail it will show up there and it will show up much later if you withdrew it and want it to return. If not there, then check the before and after Vildebeest numbers in your pool if you disbanded it or withdrew it without it coming back. I am not stating that you did so intentionally, but things do happen."
checked , no reinforcment planed in th elist , no wildbeest , except the Newzeland group given above.

is it possible to have a Matrix help to add again the group in my group list from a saved files?




< Message edited by soloje1 -- 11/14/2021 8:26:09 AM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 12
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 8:26:14 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Make sure you both use game version is 1.8.11.26b

Also, scen001 had several updates. Maybe you and your oppenents use different versions of scen001?

< Message edited by Yaab -- 11/14/2021 8:28:25 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 8:59:45 AM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
Yes we use both the same version.
He started the game so just use his saved email turn as we're playing PBEM . I think both are using the standard base scenario.
we did a game already under similar condition, except the stacking modification, and I didn' t notice any issue.

< Message edited by soloje1 -- 11/14/2021 9:00:19 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 9:20:23 AM   
forti22

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/14/2021
Status: offline 		Hi,

Playing against Soloje(which is also my dad ) on this PBEM, I may add some informations which might be helpful :
- we are playing the same game version
- we are playing with No withdrawals rules
- we are playing scen001

We did a previous PBEM with these settings and game install and reached July 42 without any issue (at which point the Allied High Command decided to accept Japanese territorial demands ).

In terms of settings, the only difference is that we use the size limit mod (you can see it active on the extreme top right of the screen while he's selecting Madioen base).
Practically, following the instructions, I replaced the pwhexe.dat, pwzlinz.dat and pwzone.dat by the "Stock Map Data with SL" available on DaBabesWitpae website (I did it on both computers my self)

May that be the reason? (still don't get how it can be? did you heard or experienced similar issue with this mod ?)

Thanks again for all your previous answers to Soloje (and potential new ones )

(in reply to soloje1)
Post #: 15
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 9:48:16 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I am not entirely sure on this one but it may be the case that you can't use the DBB maps with Scen001, you need to play the DBB Scenarios in your Case DBB-A.

If this is the only thing you changed since your last game, try to start the game with the normal map files and see if your issue still persists.
Or alternatively try loading the DBB-A Scenario and see if the group still disappears.


Edit: I remember that I once accidentally loaded a Scen1 game while still having the DBB Extended Map installed and got a lot of weird behavior until I noticed what was going on.
Though it is obvious why the extended map is problematic I am not sure if the stock map with SL has also problems with stock scenarios.

< Message edited by Maallon -- 11/14/2021 9:53:46 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 12:14:36 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I do not see where the map files would change the database for the air group.

Did you check the replacement pool to see if the aircraft went there?

Did you check to "Operations Report" to see if the unit changed names? That does happen from time to time. Some air units also change the type of aircraft as well. That should also tell you if the unit withdrew or was disbanded.

On your screenshot of all of your air units, click on the air unit "Names" to sort them that way and see if you can find the group.

On your screenshot of all of your air units, right click on the "TB" selection and see if you can find the group.

The only other thing to suggest would be to have another person run the turn using the same setup and see what happens.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 17
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 12:47:18 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I don't know the inner workings of WITPAE and how the database works, my thinking was that if the indexing of the hexes, in the new map, was changed that this could lead to unit placement errors, or something along those lines. Could this be a possible issue?

Also I just looked in my current game and in mid 42 the squadron has still the same name, though I am playing DBB-B.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 2:16:27 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

His first screenshot has the mouseover






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Post #: 19
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 2:18:04 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		"Did you check the replacement pool to see if the aircraft went there?"
yes 0 wildebest availaible there

"Did you check to "Operations Report" to see if the unit changed names? That does happen from time to time. Some air units also change the type of aircraft as well. That should also tell you if the unit withdrew or was disbanded."

Yes no any news about this group plane in OR , checked reinforcement , group list by name , by airplan types and TB filter, the Squadron number disapeared "
as I said this happened with an other group 2 turn before , we run again the save , I just modified the order of the group, and the air group was up again when we run again the turn.
the common point was I placed some no-dutch group on Java base.

Maalon , where could we find the scenario DBB-A? we could change the scenario even if the game is launched ?, or need to start a new game ?
thats not a main group but rather embarrassing if I lost ramdomly my air group during the game
I have checked these ones as I have planed some special action for them but perhaps others are missing too

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Post #: 20
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 2:25:13 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soloje1
Maalon , where could we find the scenario DBB-A? we could change the scenario even if the game is launched ?, or need to start a new game ?
thats not a main group but rather embarrassing if I lost ramdomly my air group during the game
I have checked these ones as I have planed some special action for them but perhaps others are missing too


No you cannot change the scenario mid-game you would need to start a new one.
I would recommend to test the issue first, before starting the scenario properly, just let the turns run without giving any orders and see if the groups still disappear.
Standing down all groups can help speeding up turn times.

You can find DBB-A and all other DBB Scenarios here:
https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/dabigbabes/dabigbabes-a

Randomly loosing air groups, even if they are not major ones, is still an issue you probably should solve before starting a proper game.

Also have you tried to just restore the old map files and see if the issue still persists in your current game?
This likely faster than starting a new scenario.

(in reply to soloje1)
Post #: 21
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 2:32:34 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

- we are playing with No withdrawals rules


OK, that explains why there is no withdrawal for it - which, you would need to manually perform from a large enough sized airbase anyway.

I'd check your map to make sure it and the scenario are aligned as the next step, which will at least eliminate one more possibility.

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Post #: 22
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 6:14:31 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon


quote:

ORIGINAL: soloje1
Maalon , where could we find the scenario DBB-A? we could change the scenario even if the game is launched ?, or need to start a new game ?
thats not a main group but rather embarrassing if I lost ramdomly my air group during the game
I have checked these ones as I have planed some special action for them but perhaps others are missing too


No you cannot change the scenario mid-game you would need to start a new one.
I would recommend to test the issue first, before starting the scenario properly, just let the turns run without giving any orders and see if the groups still disappear.
Standing down all groups can help speeding up turn times.

You can find DBB-A and all other DBB Scenarios here:
https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/dabigbabes/dabigbabes-a

Randomly loosing air groups, even if they are not major ones, is still an issue you probably should solve before starting a proper game.

Also have you tried to just restore the old map files and see if the issue still persists in your current game?
This likely faster than starting a new scenario.

Thank you for your informations and link
is not clear , for me , if the "Stock Map Data With SL.zip" can be used with the standard scenario or made for some BDD scenario only . as Forti said we just replaced some files ... but that's a good idea about our problem.
difficult to find some topic about AR using our game configuration.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 23
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 6:18:51 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: forti22

Hi,

Playing against Soloje(which is also my dad ) on this PBEM, I may add some informations which might be helpful :
- we are playing the same game version
- we are playing with No withdrawals rules
- we are playing scen001



I believe playing against your dad is against Matrix rules. Let me check the manual. I'll get back to you.


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Post #: 24
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 7:32:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Other shots in the dark:

- the Mini-KB came calling and all the aircraft were shot down. Unlikely - the base showed 18 TBs and the mouseover said 12 so if it is the same squadron, six were disabled and would not have flown.

- the group was accidentally disbanded or withdrawn by a click on the button or hypertext. The aircraft would not show up in the pools for several days. The group might be listed in the reinforcement queue.

- the group was accidentally transferred to a docked ship. It would now show up in the Naval Aircraft list.

- the supply level at Madioen is now too low to support ops and the squadron moved elsewhere. I have never seen this happen but squadron commanders' discretion might have this sort of choice? Anyway, it does not explain why the squadron is no longer listed in the land aircraft listing.

- the squadron upgraded to a different aircraft type. IIRC, some of the 'Beests' can upgrade to the Beaufort. That would explain why they are no longer on the partial aircraft list sorted by aircraft type.

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Post #: 25
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/14/2021 8:05:42 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soloje1
.is not clear , for me , if the "Stock Map Data With SL.zip" can be used with the standard scenario or made for some BDD scenario only . as Forti said we just replaced some files ... but that's a good idea about our problem.
difficult to find some topic about AR using our game configuration.


A map data file with added stacking limits, if it is based on a map data file for the stock map, should work OK with any scenario designed for the stock map (i.e. including all of the official scenarios).

Having said that, bugs are always a possibility, so it is worth making a test using a stock map data file without stacking limits, then the same test using a stock map data file with stacking limits, to see whether there is any difference. That would eliminate the stacking limit data as a contributing factor, at least.

(in reply to soloje1)
Post #: 26
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/15/2021 3:48:41 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		thanks for your idea, answer below in the text
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Other shots in the dark:

- the Mini-KB came calling and all the aircraft were shot down. Unlikely - the base showed 18 TBs and the mouseover said 12 so if it is the same squadron, six were disabled and would not have flown.

AS YOU SAID IIMPOSSIBLE TO LOST ALL PLANES AND NO WILDEBEETS LOSSES IN INFORMATION SCREEN THIS TURn

- the group was accidentally disbanded or withdrawn by a click on the button or hypertext. The aircraft would not show up in the pools for several days. The group might be listed in the reinforcement queue.

checked no reinforcement planned 60 day ( around after) at least no reinforcement of wildbeest or named squadron

- the group was accidentally transferred to a docked ship. It would now show up in the Naval Aircraft list.


no ship at dock , no CV anyway.

- the supply level at Madioen is now too low to support ops and the squadron moved elsewhere. I have never seen this happen but squadron commanders' discretion might have this sort of choice? Anyway, it does not explain why the squadron is no longer listed in the land aircraft listing.
as you said not possible , not in group list

- the squadron upgraded to a different aircraft type. IIRC, some of the 'Beests' can upgrade to the Beaufort. That would explain why they are no longer on the partial aircraft list sorted by aircraft type.

we are near the start of camppaign , I love to have beaufort in replacement pool anyway as said the group name is not in air forces group in game


< Message edited by soloje1 -- 11/15/2021 3:50:04 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/15/2021 3:57:16 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I don't see that this was covered, did you try and upgrade that squadron and then see what happens?

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RE: Flight group disapear - 11/15/2021 4:02:34 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown




A map data file with added stacking limits, if it is based on a map data file for the stock map, should work OK with any scenario designed for the stock map (i.e. including all of the official scenarios).

normaly we are using the good data file for stock map

Having said that, bugs are always a possibility, so it is worth making a test using a stock map data file without stacking limits, then the same test using a stock map data file with stacking limits, to see whether there is any difference. That would eliminate the stacking limit data as a contributing factor, at least.

we did a "normal" campaing with this game scenario already with same condition except this stacking limit condition with no problem.
but as mentioned above as well, start a test game fast with no order to check if this happen again could explain even if this appears to be ramdom. As we did already a same turn , where an other group disapeared, with no problem the 2nd time. So this could be linked at a special situation/event , for instance all group were on Java isle and were not dutch air group

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Post #: 29
RE: Flight group disapear - 11/15/2021 4:05:32 PM   
soloje1

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I don't see that this was covered, did you try and upgrade that squadron and then see what happens?

I can't upgrade planes, nothing to replace , but this issue seems to happen ramdomly .

(in reply to geofflambert)
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