Let's try again

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Let's try again

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Let's try again

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Let's try again - 11/13/2021 9:08:31 PM

MarkShot

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline

I resigned after 20 years tonight. Erik asked me to reconsider. I am reconsidering as I am very interested in these 3 GG titles.

I am sorry I did not realize, since I use an I pad sometimes, my side bar is turned off but it says "beta". I was just trying to disclose that I would be acting in the interests of Matrix as I signed a contract around 2000+. The in line post had been unnecessary.

Questions have been asked. I will assume they were sincere and not antagonistic. In general, you are free to ask questions. If I decline to answer, I will let you know.

(1a) My legal experience; USA. I spent 2/3s of my career in big corporates on Wall St. as a senior manager of software development. I spent one third with small start ups. At some point, I tired of crazy business plans and stock options. I went with a more traditional business model of billing for services. Pretty much CTOs for hire. Your business plan could succeed or failed, but we got paid. As a small business you get exposed to many areas. One being contracts. No, I did not do my own contracts, but I made sure to understand what I could.

(1b) I've taken around 10 law school courses which cover constitutional law, common law, statutory law, tort law, contracts, and procedural law. In the USA, we have two legal systems: common law (derived from our British heritage; laws establish by prior decisions and precedence) and statutory law (laws establish by legislatures). As Americans, we are considered to have dual citizenship. You are a citizen of the USA. You are a citizen of the state of your domicile. This was originally established for contracts that crossed state boundaries or plaintiff/defendants who did not think they could get a fair trial in a particular state. These days (procedural law) one seeks the venue with the highest awards or favorable decisions.

Fiduciary responsibility is a real principle applied to employees and others such as betas.

---

(2) Education is my hobby from history, to science, to medical school. I had hoped at death to know all, but I don't think that will happen. So, I study now.

---

(3) I was a software engineer, but never have been employed by the game industry. I have plenty experience as a beta and investor in game companies.

---

(4a) What do Matrix betas do? It really depends on the developer; each is different. At Panther games we had a mix. I address software issues. I do not have any service in the US military, but in the military of ROC/Taiwan (instructor). I am a software person. I also handled game promotion.

(4b) GG games have much better logistics and air war than Panther Games. Panther games uses a novel system of intelligent AI agents that act as your subordinates. It is based on the OODA loop concept. It is quite innovative and lets the player chose the level of micromanagement that suits them. The only system that resembles it is Mad Minute Game (I was a beta) that used AI agents. But in Panther you are always the senior HQ, but in MMG, you can be subordinate to the AI and a cog in the wheel.

(4c) I was also business advisor and an investor in AGEOD. (Large scale strategy/operational games.)

---

What do Matrix betas do? Whatever they ask you to do. I don't lie or omit, but you represent the best interests of Matrix. This is why I made an issue out of welcoming noobs and contacted Erik when that was not the primary culture in this forum.

---

Feel free to ask questions.

---

I grew up in the shadow of WWII watching old WWII movies. I feel this conflict shaped today's world. It is my area of interest. I find the GG games to be more comprehensive than anything out there, but I miss intelligent agents. But Panther Game would choke on try trying to handle the entire Eastern Front.

---

Other games: CMx2 (all titles); MIUS (all DLCs)

---

I am happy to join the forum. Thank you.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 11/14/2021 6:50:34 AM >

_____________________________

(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

Post #: 1

RE: Let's try again - 11/13/2021 9:50:27 PM

Greybriar

Posts: 1148
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline

Welcome to the Matrix forums, Markshot.

_____________________________

This war is not about slavery. --Robert E. Lee

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 2

RE: Let's try again - 11/13/2021 10:33:29 PM

tolsdorff

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

Welcome back.! I hope you will still begin to play WITPAE. Nothing compares to it in scope and mechanics AND, although not as knowledgeable perhaps as some, there are always people willing to lend a hand on the forum.

(in reply to Greybriar)

Post #: 3

RE: Let's try again - 11/13/2021 11:05:58 PM

Platoonist

Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline

Ah...is the kerfuffle over? Welcome back aboard.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 4

RE: Let's try again - 11/13/2021 11:35:24 PM

InfiniteMonkey

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline

MarkShot,

I do not generally post on the forums anymore. The response you got as a new player had sadly become too commonplace around here. I am glad to see Erik taking a stand, but I've seen a number of new players treated the same way. You'll get a more helpful / less judgmental response on XTRG's WitP discord server ( https://discord.gg/eWuRqKV ). Hit me up there and we can voice chat. I probably have the answers to a lot of your questions bookmarked.

IM

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 5

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 12:29:56 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

MarkShot,

I do not generally post on the forums anymore. The response you got as a new player had sadly become too commonplace around here. I am glad to see Erik taking a stand, but I've seen a number of new players treated the same way. You'll get a more helpful / less judgmental response on XTRG's WitP discord server ( https://discord.gg/eWuRqKV ). Hit me up there and we can voice chat. I probably have the answers to a lot of your questions bookmarked.

IM

Your comment is becoming too commonplace. People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again. A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/14/2021 12:31:39 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)

Post #: 6

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:15:02 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

This is an interesting way to frame your entry to the forum.

Also interesting has been your approach towards the interactions with the community so far:

- Your fractious reaction to a (perfectly legitimate) satirical response. If you had carried out the research you claimed, then you would have known of compatibility between the stock game and extended maps.

- To then adopt a holier than thou attitude certainly suggests a lack of self-awareness or introspection and at the very least poor sense of humour.

- Then to escalate things to the point where you feel the need to deliver an ultimatum on resigning to the Matrix CEO?

Utterly baffling.

What's been omitted from the above is that for a substantial number of years (more than a decade?), Alfred has provided concise, accurate and authoritative commentary and advice for the community, including (but certainly not limited to) production of a number of user guides.

So far, your contribution to the AE community has resulted in Alfred being banned - the implication I take from your post here that you have had some involvement in bringing this about (however, I may very well be mistaken here).

This is not a good start, and not an approach likely to endear you to other forum denizens.

That said, it is not fatal position.

For some tactical advice:

- With all candour, your status as a beta tester (amongst other things) for a game other than AE is immaterial in this context.

- Do your research. You are far from the first person to ask the questions that you have, and there are responses aplenty that have already been posted.

- Read the room. All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 7

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:32:25 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 8

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:40:51 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

I would have some advice for learning the game but I would not want to be reported and banned.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 11/14/2021 1:45:20 AM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 9

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:46:17 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
What's been omitted from the above is that for a substantial number of years (more than a decade?), Alfred has provided concise, accurate and authoritative commentary and advice for the community, including (but certainly not limited to) production of a number of user guides.

So far, your contribution to the AE community has resulted in Alfred being banned - the implication I take from your post here that you have had some involvement in bringing this about (however, I may very well be mistaken here).

Let's be completely clear about this. Alfred got himself banned. Once I read the full thread from his initial reply to the later rants... it was clearly well past the line the forum rules draw for civility. Regardless of how good a player Alfred may be and how helpful he may be to veteran players, this does not justify how he responded to a new player in that thread.

I'd suggest that anyone who thinks Alfred's ban was unearned send me a PM. Personally, from what I've heard it might have been overdue and I hope it results in Alfred returning with more civility. I'm not looking to run anyone out of the community, but everyone has to follow the same set of rules, regardless of how long they've been here or how much they've contributed.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 10

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 2:11:25 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged. I am happy to be told I am wrong in a substantive discussion about subject matter. That is the point of a forum. Discussion of a subject. The point of a forum is not the prevention of discussion. When I ask a question I am not stating I know the answer and am looking for debate. I am asking for discussion to increase knowledge of a subject. Not to be attacked for asking for discussion. There is a BIG difference in attacking people just for bringing up discussion vs debating substance in a discussion. I am ALL FOR THAT. Bring me the substantial discussion not the toxicity of debating whether discussion should even be brought up in a forum. So what if questions are asked that have been asked before? Refreshers are always helpful and newbies are always looking to learn. Lets all grow up and move on from bullying like we are in kindergarten.

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

As I said in that post of course the quality of advice can be variable. Can say pretty much the same of so many posts and AARs in this forum. Everyone has a different answer, method, opinion, advice, goto, hunch, guess, whatever. Because this game is so massive. I dismiss none of it. I get a lot of great ideas from all of it. I've gotten a lot of great ideas from everything I have watched or read. Or they make me think about things I have not before. Or question my own ideas. Even if lots of people are wrong or misinformed or whatever. You just have to weed through all of it. I get so many different responses whenever I make a post and everyone thinks they are right. I find it hilarious when people say they know everything about this game. Pretty much every question I have posted in this forum has proven that wrong. But that is what makes this game so great.

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/14/2021 2:53:41 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 11

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 2:45:38 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged.[...]

From the kneejerk response that you have since edited, I'm not sure that's really the case. Nevertheless I'll proceed on the assumption that it is the case.

If not from challenge, where does the toxicity that you refer to originate from?

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

quote:

As I said [...] so great.

I'll refer you to the witty comment I made earlier.

All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

Alfred is one of those endowed with greater knowledge in the domain of AE.

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 12

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 3:09:24 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged.[...]

From the kneejerk response that you have since edited, I'm not sure that's really the case. Nevertheless I'll proceed on the assumption that it is the case.

If not from challenge, where does the toxicity that you refer to originate from?

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

quote:

As I said [...] so great.

I'll refer you to the witty comment I made earlier.

All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

Alfred is one of those endowed with greater knowledge in the domain of AE.

Toxicity results from someone that acts like they own the forum, acts like they are the gatekeeper of the game and the forum, responds in kind to posts, goes on egocentric rants about people and the questions they ask on the forum...I could go on and on...

I've never questioned Alfred's knowledge of the game only his poor egocentric I AM GOD attitude towards others. You are blinded by something if you do not see that and if you think I am the only one that sees that you are kidding yourself...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4997335&mpage=1&key=

And yes I think watching Lodrik play as the Japanese is a good beginner Japanese (primer) series to watch. So shoot me.

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/14/2021 4:09:51 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 13

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 3:18:58 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

I took a look for this thread, which I found here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5075665

Here's Alfred's reply to someone enthusiastically sharing some videos about WITP-AE. I have bolded a few key passages:

"Every time I click on a youtube AE channel which is presented to the forum as being the product of someone who really knows their stuff, without failure I find them to be riddled with significant errors. These two links have fully complied with the usual"quality". That was 170 minutes of misinformation. It explains why all the newbie who refuse to read the official documentation, which is accurate, then come to the forum and display just how little they kin ow about the game.

It was President Lincoln who said:

You can fool some of the people all the time, you can fool all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

That was said in the pre-Youtube era for nowadays with anyone able to upload Youtube videos, it is in fact possible to fool all the people all the time. The AE videos are proof of the new paradigm.

Alfred"

As a player trying to learn the game, that reply basically tells you the following:

1. You have shared misinformation
2. You have shown you are ignorant
3. You are a gullible fool

Now, the videos may have been misinformation, but if someone is not already an experienced WITP-AE player, they're not going to know that and it's far from civil to therefore state that they are showing ignorance and foolishness. If you don't want video creators covering WITP-AE, this is also a good way to achieve that.

Alternately, a reply like this would have been civil, helpful and within the forum rules:

"Every time I click on a youtube AE channel which is presented to the forum as being the product of someone who really knows their stuff, without failure I find them to be riddled with significant errors. Unfortunately, these also matched that description.

I would suggest that you instead read these guides, threads, AARs, etc. as well as the manual if you want to really learn how to play the Japanese side well. You may want to share these with the video creator as well, as it may help improve his grasp of the game:

<helpful links>

Alfred"

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 14

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 3:20:13 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged.[...]

From the kneejerk response that you have since edited, I'm not sure that's really the case. Nevertheless I'll proceed on the assumption that it is the case.

If not from challenge, where does the toxicity that you refer to originate from?

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

quote:

As I said [...] so great.

I'll refer you to the witty comment I made earlier.

All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

Alfred is one of those endowed with greater knowledge in the domain of AE.

Toxicity results from someone that acts like they own the forum, acts like they are the gatekeeper of the game and the forum, responds in kind to posts, goes on egocentric rants about people and the questions they ask on the forum...I could go on and on...

I've never questioned Alfred's knowledge of the game only his poor egocentric I AM GOD attitude towards others. You are blinded by something if you do not see that and if you think I am the only one that sees that you are kidding yourself...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4997335&mpage=1&key=

And yes I think watching Lodrik play as the Japanese is a good beginner (primer) series to watch. So shoot me.

What do you want to be shot with?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 15

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 4:12:50 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged.[...]

From the kneejerk response that you have since edited, I'm not sure that's really the case. Nevertheless I'll proceed on the assumption that it is the case.

If not from challenge, where does the toxicity that you refer to originate from?

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

quote:

As I said [...] so great.

I'll refer you to the witty comment I made earlier.

All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

Alfred is one of those endowed with greater knowledge in the domain of AE.

Toxicity results from someone that acts like they own the forum, acts like they are the gatekeeper of the game and the forum, responds in kind to posts, goes on egocentric rants about people and the questions they ask on the forum...I could go on and on...

I've never questioned Alfred's knowledge of the game only his poor egocentric I AM GOD attitude towards others. You are blinded by something if you do not see that and if you think I am the only one that sees that you are kidding yourself...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4997335&mpage=1&key=

And yes I think watching Lodrik play as the Japanese is a good beginner (primer) series to watch. So shoot me.

What do you want to be shot with?

At this point a shot of alcohol.

_____________________________

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 16

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 5:22:42 AM

MarkShot

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline

Thanks all, for the warm welcome. I still have 4.5 hrs of Dojo video to complete.

I have read a lot of forum posts/maps info/utilities etc ...

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

I think I got the basics I need to get it installed and working. I probably won't have more questions until next month.

I have already given Erik source and executables which fix map scrolling for WITW and WITE-2 in a multi-display configuration. My guess is that this title will probably have the same issue. If so, I will roll a fix for this game as well, and provide it to Erik. (I don't want to host executable code myself given the amount of scams that exist these days. Better for Matrix to host if they find it useful, since customers trust Matrix even when AV software is flashing on a beta patch installer.)

Thanks again.

_____________________________

(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 17

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 6:55:05 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

I love how bellicose this forum gets the closer we get to the December 7 anniversary.

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 18

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 7:02:08 AM

MarkShot

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I love how bellicose this forum gets the closer we get to the December 7 anniversary.

Okay. I am out here in the Pacific South of Japan, and it was December 8th. :)

But still I think FDR got his point across.

_____________________________

(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 19

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 8:33:09 AM

tolsdorff

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

....

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

...

Who knows after all this, Canoerebel might even return as a forum regular. A very knowledgeable creative forumite who mastered the game as few others have.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 20

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 11:08:27 AM

Maallon

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

Though Alfred seems to get a lot of hate recently, especially in the last days and though his ban was something he may have seen coming - honestly you can't go on a rant like that in a public forum and expect not to get banned if someone reports you, no matter what your arguments are - I would like to point out that Alfred has contributed and still contributes a lot of value to this forum.

From some of the classics like:
Logistics 101
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790&mpage=1&key=�
Ship Repair 101 Guide
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=�

To some of the more recent ones:
Anti-Air Question
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5085995&mpage=1&key=�
Remain on Station
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5082649&mpage=1&key=�
Nav Search Influencing if Torp Bombers Attack
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5085336&mpage=1&key=�

In my case Alfred was actually one of the persons here on the forum that made me stick with WITPAE like barely anyone else.
I came mostly from Hearts of Iron 3 Black Ice before I discovered WITPAE and was completely overwhelmed by this game at first. Reading this forum was one of the main reasons I got into this game proper and I don't regret it. But the posts from Alfred, among others of course, were the ones that often helped me out the most in understanding the game.
I grew up in a rough neighborhood, where heavily insulting someone as a greeting was considered hearty, so I often fail to see what others consider rude and what not.
But if you set aside Alfred's rudeness and just look at the content his contribution in terms of game knowledge is invaluable, especially if you want to learn the game properly.

So I would like to encourage people to either get a thicker fur and concentrate more on what is said instead of the how or use the green button if you think it is not worth it.
Either way I would appreciate it if the bickering would come to an end and I hope that peace will move into this forum again.

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 21

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 11:22:41 AM

MarkShot

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline

I think you have an excellent point. While searching, I came across numerous illuminating posts by Alfred.

---

Alfred,

I apologize for my response, and attacking your character. Please forgive me. It will probably take months before I am ready for some deep questions, but I hope you will endeavor to help me then. Thank you.

_____________________________

(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

(in reply to Maallon)

Post #: 22

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 12:20:14 PM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Mark,

I�m perfectly willing for a restart. I welcomed you from the start.
I�ll help you anyway I can with the game. I�m interested in the game.

But�..I must say that I�ve never seen a thread like this on the forum before.
Not until you showed up. There are questions to be asked.

First, you came back with a whole lot of qualifications like you are applying
for a job. What Job would that be?

I�ve said before that I don�t care about your qualifications.
I don�t think many forum members care about your past or how smart you are.

When you first posted your resume in that thread I put it down as a form
of your insecurity. You might be a little shy at joining a new group and you
wanted to puff yourself up some so we would not think you were a nobody.

That is perfectly normal even though it is the stuff that kids do in high school.
That stuff almost always works itself out over time as you interact with the group
and gain more confidence.

But of course there can be another reason which I over looked.

You might be telling us that you are a red hot super smart �Beta� guy
who is coming in this forum to show us hicks and hayseeds how
it should be done and let us know you are now the top dog.

I say that because you have come back now with another string of
qualifications and this time it looks like you have brought Erik Rutins
to back you up.

In the over ten years I�ve been on the forum I can�t recall ever seeing
Erik Rutins show up on this forum to defend a single player.

Erik says he is concerned about all new players but it seems to me that
he is only concerned about one new player.

This forum has been concerned about new players for the last ten years.
Unfortunately, not all of them make the learning curve. The dropout rate is high.
That is not because of Alfred. He is very rude but he is in the open about it.
He does deserve a time out on occasion.

Erik Rutins has not been around here at all to help or support anybody until you.

So�.. the question is what is Erik Rutins to you?

Is he your big stick? Your enforcer? Big brother? Your mother?
Are you going to be his inside snitch, his spy, his informer on anyone you label as a deplorable?
Are you going to hide behind his skirts and run to him every time you feel a head wind?
High school stuff.

Then the real question is what kind of player are you going to be?

Are you here to learn and enjoy the game like I am?
I�m all in on that.

Or�...Are you here for an agenda that you have brought in from somewhere else?
A big chip on your shoulder from somewhere else?

Heads up�...A big test of this for me is to see if Erik Rutins answers this post for you.

You appear to be a smart guy. You just don�t want to be too smart.
There are plenty of smart players on this forum.

I�m pretty smart myself even if I�m low key and a nobody.

Bygones.

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 23

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 12:29:21 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

People are afraid to post to the forum anymore for fear of attack. Maybe we can finally clean this place back up and make it a welcoming non-toxic forum again.

You are confusing toxicity with robust challenge.

Having incorrect information corrected, misinformation or inaccuracy addressed is a positive outcome for the forum.

The problem is that there are a number of individuals who take being told that they're wrong all too personally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

A lot of YouTubers like XTRG, THG, and SGD are bringing a lot of new players to this game. Even the post I made about that was attacked. All level players and youtubers should be welcomed not chastised. This forum is just as much a place for newbies as it is vets. Welcome Mark! We are glad to have you!

That is a blatant misrepresentation, not backed up by the facts.

You posted links to Youtube videos of both Lodrik and Strategy Gaming Dojo covering their ongoing game. You presented this as a "Good Japanese Primer".

Alfred pointed out (quite correctly) that there were a number of factual errors in the content produced by both players.

Promotion of such material without the appropriate caveats (that both players are relatively new to the game and not subject experts) and having it used instead of an authoritative source (e.g the manual, informed forum denizens) leads to a negative feedback loop (curiously enough and again, quite correctly, pointed out by Alfred).

XTRG, THG, and SGD are doing the community a service in promoting the game, but there's also the potential for misinformation to be propagated. I don't think XTRG, THG, or SDG would describe themselves as experts at the game. The content then produced needs to be treated appropriately.

I am happy to be challenged.[...]

From the kneejerk response that you have since edited, I'm not sure that's really the case. Nevertheless I'll proceed on the assumption that it is the case.

If not from challenge, where does the toxicity that you refer to originate from?

quote:

So we can't post links to a good YT series we think others might enjoy or get something out of now? Yes I think Lodrik offers some good Japanese game play. Better than any other YouTubers I have seen. Those guys are not newbies to the game but they don't know everything. Not that they were the Gods of WITPAE. But they still offer a lot of good tips and observations. We all do. We all get things wrong about this game. That's why we all love it.

The issue was not posting links to YT series that others might enjoy. If it had been framed as such

The issue was that you posted links to YT series with the thread title "Great Japanese Primer Highly Recommend. This guy knows his stuff".

Alfred, joined by other long-term members of the forum, pointed out the issues and implications of doing this.

From a superficial examination, neither of those videos positions itself as a primer. That seems to have been you addition. To your credit, you have since edited that post and title to make it less hagiographic.

quote:

As I said [...] so great.

I'll refer you to the witty comment I made earlier.

All men may be created equal, but they were not endowed by their Creator with equal knowledge of how the mechanics of AE work. The challenge lies in knowing the difference.

Alfred is one of those endowed with greater knowledge in the domain of AE.

Toxicity results from someone that acts like they own the forum, acts like they are the gatekeeper of the game and the forum, responds in kind to posts, goes on egocentric rants about people and the questions they ask on the forum...I could go on and on...

I've never questioned Alfred's knowledge of the game only his poor egocentric I AM GOD attitude towards others. You are blinded by something if you do not see that and if you think I am the only one that sees that you are kidding yourself...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4997335&mpage=1&key=

And yes I think watching Lodrik play as the Japanese is a good beginner (primer) series to watch. So shoot me.

What do you want to be shot with?

At this point a shot of alcohol.

The only thing that I could help you with is "Fireball" whiskey which I purchased yesterday. It is for cooking and baking purposes. You know, put it in with the eggs for your "French" toast or maybe in a spice cake or soak raisins in it to put into a cake.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/fireball-whisky/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 24

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 12:55:10 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit

Mark,

I�m perfectly willing for a restart. I welcomed you from the start.
I�ll help you anyway I can with the game. I�m interested in the game.

But�..I must say that I�ve never seen a thread like this on the forum before.
Not until you showed up. There are questions to be asked.

First, you came back with a whole lot of qualifications like you are applying
for a job. What Job would that be?

I�ve said before that I don�t care about your qualifications.
I don�t think many forum members care about your past or how smart you are.

When you first posted your resume in that thread I put it down as a form
of your insecurity. You might be a little shy at joining a new group and you
wanted to puff yourself up some so we would not think you were a nobody.

That is perfectly normal even though it is the stuff that kids do in high school.
That stuff almost always works itself out over time as you interact with the group
and gain more confidence.

But of course there can be another reason which I over looked.

You might be telling us that you are a red hot super smart �Beta� guy
who is coming in this forum to show us hicks and hayseeds how
it should be done and let us know you are now the top dog.

I say that because you have come back now with another string of
qualifications and this time it looks like you have brought Erik Rutins
to back you up.

In the over ten years I�ve been on the forum I can�t recall ever seeing
Erik Rutins show up on this forum to defend a single player.

Erik says he is concerned about all new players but it seems to me that
he is only concerned about one new player.

This forum has been concerned about new players for the last ten years.
Unfortunately, not all of them make the learning curve. The dropout rate is high.
That is not because of Alfred. He is very rude but he is in the open about it.
He does deserve a time out on occasion.

Erik Rutins has not been around here at all to help or support anybody until you.

So�.. the question is what is Erik Rutins to you?

Is he your big stick? Your enforcer? Big brother? Your mother?
Are you going to be his inside snitch, his spy, his informer on anyone you label as a deplorable?
Are you going to hide behind his skirts and run to him every time you feel a head wind?
High school stuff.

Then the real question is what kind of player are you going to be?

Are you here to learn and enjoy the game like I am?
I�m all in on that.

Or�...Are you here for an agenda that you have brought in from somewhere else?
A big chip on your shoulder from somewhere else?

Heads up�...A big test of this for me is to see if Erik Rutins answers this post for you.

You appear to be a smart guy. You just don�t want to be too smart.
There are plenty of smart players on this forum.

I�m pretty smart myself even if I�m low key and a nobody.

Bygones.

Interesting questions, to be sure.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 25

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 12:56:00 PM

MarkShot

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline

Above was as an offer of olive branch to Alfred. Just in case that was unclear.

Whether Erik answers your questions is up to him.

I am not insecure or an introvert, but sharing more background would only feed your impression that achievement correlates with insecurity. So, I won't.

It is not uncommon to share something about one's self when entering a new place. I have done that elsewhere and here. (As these boards are English speaking are largely American. I will say that I didn't break any cultural taboos. This would not be true every place.)

What's my relationship with Erik, I suppose long time associates since Panther Games left Battle Front and joined Matrix around 2003, I think.

I was very clear when the hostilities began. The forums exist to sell games and retain customers. Betas and employees are expected to reflect the best interests of the business. "Noob stomping" is not in the best interest of selling games or attracting new content producers. After the obvious and fair warning, I reported the situation. Erik is the senior manager here, and the ultimate arbitrator no matter what I might think. And so, he probably saw visiting this neglected forum as one of his job responsibilities.

I think its wonderful that this forum is populated with so many dedicated expert players. But that is still no reason for new customers to pay their dues or grovel.

You say that Alfred is naturally gruff. Then, maybe you will understand that I am naturally diligent and take both paid and unpaid roles seriously.

There are people in this world who struggle to assimilate into larger society and conform to social norms. I don't have an answer for you. I would raise the medical/behavioral matter with Erik privately. I am sure he will do his best to be fair and accommodating.

_____________________________

(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 26

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:07:21 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

Mark,

Having gaslit Alfred with your "therapy comments", provoked the angry response you wanted, and then misused the report system to get him banned, you now, even in his absence, are so ill mannered, and such an internet troll, as to personally launch a passive/aggressive attack on him -again- and accuse him of suffering some medical/behavioural problem.

Your behaviour is objectively disgusting.

Quoted in case you try and delete it:

quote:

You say that Alfred is naturally gruff. Then, maybe you will understand that I am naturally diligent and take both paid and unpaid roles seriously.

There are people in this world who struggle to assimilate into larger society and conform to social norms. I don't have an answer for you. I would raise the medical/behavioral matter with Erik privately. I am sure he will do his best to be fair and accommodating.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 11/14/2021 1:21:21 PM >

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 27

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 1:25:44 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
Mark,

Having gaslit Alfred with your "therapy comments", provoked the angry response you wanted, and then misused the report system to get him banned, you now, even in his absence, are so ill mannered, and such an internet troll, as to personally launch a passive/aggressive attack him -again- and accuse him of suffering some medical/behavioural problem.

Your behaviour is objectively disgusting.

The fact is that this sub-forum has had its own moderators for a while, but what I can see has happened is that there are two camps that have developed, one pro-Alfred and one against. I've received PMs both arguing that Alfred did not deserve a ban (not that he did not violate the forum rules, but that he knows so much and is otherwise so helpful that he should have gotten a pass) and that his ban was overdue and his behavior has driven away as many people as he has helped. To be clear, these PMs arguing against Alfred have come from multiple members of the AE community concerned about his behavior and their names are not just MarkShot or Tanaka.

I'm glad my attention was drawn to this issue as it does appear that a sub-community within our greater community is heading towards division, if it has not already divided.

I'm going to be completely clear about this for everyone's benefit.

First, there are no favorites, no one gets a pass. However, I do have very limited time for forum moderation and thus it is sometimes perceived that if I don't see and act on something, that constitutes approval. It does not. We do however apply the rule that reactions to provocations are not the same as the initial provocation. I've now read thread after thread where Alfred issues the initial insult and his defenders point to the reaction in his defence. The initial insult is what counts in these cases and I've seen Alfred dishing that out time and again.

Second, we don't go back and enforce "history". If the mods missed it and weeks have passed and the community has moved on, we take note of it but don't chase it. If we see a new offense, past behavior is taken into account.

Third, Ian you have an official warning per our policy as this is the first issue I've had with you. If you violate the forum rules again, you'll also get a ban to think things over.

As I've said before and in PMs, Alfred may be very helpful to veteran players or his forum friends. He may be extremely knowledgeable. However, he needs to follow the forum rules just like everyone else and he has not been doing so, period.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 11/14/2021 1:29:26 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 28

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 4:24:20 PM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

Really? When everyone else is told "No, you must buy the game."

I find that highly interesting.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 29

RE: Let's try again - 11/14/2021 4:29:40 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

Really? When everyone else is told "No, you must buy the game."

I find that highly interesting.

+1

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)

Post #: 30