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Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 1:56:09 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

I'm going to propose that for new players (and there's inevitably and fortunately some influx of those each year) the community put together a single thread (or point me to the best one that already exists) with links to all of the guides and AARs a new player should read through for best results. I'll pin and FAQ it and for those who are tired of answering the same questions again, a simple link to that thread will then suffice.

Regards,

- Erik


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Post #: 1
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 2:02:16 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thats a great idea.
I found the following thread very helpful when I started out with the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Though some of the info are outdated, for example as far as I know the wiki mentioned there never really came to materialize properly.
But otherwise a lot of great stuff.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 2
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 2:40:19 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Erik there is already FAQ thread in the War Room
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 3
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 2:49:46 PM   
MarkShot

 

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSgMOSrhbsUY4MMngkf5__S8xO8Wzi4JG Dojo

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Post #: 4
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 2:51:42 PM   
AtParmentier

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/15/2019
Status: offline 		The FAQ has some wrong statements (slightly outdated).

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 5
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 3:02:40 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtParmentier

The FAQ has some wrong statements (slightly outdated).

+1
Also there is no clear distinction between house rules and actual game mechanics in that thread.
This can be very confusing if you are new and don't know what you are looking at.

(in reply to AtParmentier)
Post #: 6
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 4:33:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I refer people to both of those threads and suggest that they go through them but they also need to look through the patch notes.

I also refer some people to some AARs so they can read what other people do, especially if there is discussion among players as to the best course to take. But always, play the game that you want to play.

I do not refer people to any videos.

Someone had been working on a new manual but discontinued that project.

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Post #: 7
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 4:44:08 PM   
Spanno


Posts: 18
Joined: 12/9/2018
From: UK
Status: offline 		There is also WITPAE A forum squeeze that is available on the forums, that collates some useful forum posts.

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Post #: 8
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 5:26:39 PM   
rmeckman

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Thats a great idea.
I found the following thread very helpful when I started out with the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Though some of the info are outdated, for example as far as I know the wiki mentioned there never really came to materialize properly.
But otherwise a lot of great stuff.


As a relatively new player, I agree that this thread probably contains some of the best information to supplement the official documentation. It has links to picking leaders, logistics, an auxiliary ship guide, and other useful threads. The FAQ at

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

is also useful, although the emphasis on house rules at the top may cause new players to miss the game tips further down. I often use the changing leaders table in this thread as a quick reference when spending political points.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 9
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 6:16:18 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		Erik , I applaud you on your suggestions to revitalize the forum and the player base!

Might I suggest a small addition to the effort? It is was historically in many countries during holiday seasons or on major events (coronations , birth of royal children and such) to celebrate such "rebirths" or "rejuvenation s" with a general amnesty for non violent offenders. Why not offer a a general amnesty to those who have been banned from the forum? A "one time , go forth and sin no more" pardon? It might serve to satisfy both camps , those who wanted offenders punished (and they have been , by being banned for a while) while appeasing those who would like to see them returned the fold , where they can add their experience while showing that violating the rules will not be tolerated.

It seems to me to a simple , yet kindly thing to do, a elegant solution to a painful problem.

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Post #: 10
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 6:27:32 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		JWE even?

Love DaBabes.

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Post #: 11
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 6:40:14 PM   
MarkShot

 

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Could you guys make a clear distinction what is best for PBEM and SP, please?

Thank you.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 11/14/2021 6:41:17 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 6:50:34 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Erik , I applaud you on your suggestions to revitalize the forum and the player base!

Might I suggest a small addition to the effort? It is was historically in many countries during holiday seasons or on major events (coronations , birth of royal children and such) to celebrate such "rebirths" or "rejuvenation s" with a general amnesty for non violent offenders. Why not offer a a general amnesty to those who have been banned from the forum? A "one time , go forth and sin no more" pardon? It might serve to satisfy both camps , those who wanted offenders punished (and they have been , by being banned for a while) while appeasing those who would like to see them returned the fold , where they can add their experience while showing that violating the rules will not be tolerated.

It seems to me to a simple , yet kindly thing to do, a elegant solution to a painful problem.

+1

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 13
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 6:51:53 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Could you guys make a clear distinction what is best for PBEM and SP, please?

Thank you.

Nothing that was posted is solely useful for PBEM or SP.
Only the FAQ discusses house rules at the beginning which, as mentioned already, can be misleading.

< Message edited by Maallon -- 11/14/2021 6:52:22 PM >

(in reply to MarkShot)
Post #: 14
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 7:53:54 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Could you guys make a clear distinction what is best for PBEM and SP, please?

Thank you.

MarkShot, "what is best" in a game this complex could mean a million things.

Do you mean what is best for new players to study to get into the game?
From what I have seen, there is a wide range of learning styles and levels of patience among players. Some want to study things in a logical fashion before making a move. Others want to "see what it looks like" on videos. Some want to start small and build their knowledge as they tackle more complex scenarios. Some want to leap in and play the game and not worry about mistakes that they will make through inexperience.

I am convinced that the basic tools that already exist are enough to get players started (if they at least try to use them) and that this forum, responsive to new player's individual learning style, is the best way to handle something so complex. You would need an encyclopedia level database to cover all situations that a new player might query.

The FAQ/Info for Newbies thread has not been maintained from what I saw. Over the years a lot of things about the programmer's solutions have been revealed if they help the player understand what is going on without opening up opportunities for some players to "game" the programming and ruin the balance of game play.

Alfred has posted the majority of this info. See his Ship Repair 101 guide as an example. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=
I suggest the FAQ should contain links to all these guides. Forumites who have found these guides useful could propose them to the moderator for inclusion so the FAQ could be updated as new info becomes clear.

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Post #: 15
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 9:58:04 PM   
MarkShot

 

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Will answer tomorrow when I have a real keyboard. Thanks.

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Post #: 16
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/14/2021 10:12:21 PM   
MarkShot

 

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I refer people to both of those threads and suggest that they go through them but they also need to look through the patch notes.

I also refer some people to some AARs so they can read what other people do, especially if there is discussion among players as to the best course to take. But always, play the game that you want to play.

I do not refer people to any videos.

Someone had been working on a new manual but discontinued that project.


What’s the problem with Dojo’s tutorial series for this or other GG games? He weaves mechanics with strategy where you can follow along and repeat the process. Doing yourself is best. He creates excitement for the games.

He also points out great map, Sea Bee Configurator, Kulls XLS.

Even if Matrix had budget they could not buy better. And Matrix has no budget.

His LPs are a waste of time he wastes half a video on greeting his fans on twitch.

After Arumba for Paradox, he is one of the best.

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Post #: 17
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 2:42:00 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Might I suggest a small addition to the effort? It is was historically in many countries during holiday seasons or on major events (coronations , birth of royal children and such) to celebrate such "rebirths" or "rejuvenation s" with a general amnesty for non violent offenders. Why not offer a a general amnesty to those who have been banned from the forum? A "one time , go forth and sin no more" pardon? It might serve to satisfy both camps , those who wanted offenders punished (and they have been , by being banned for a while) while appeasing those who would like to see them returned the fold , where they can add their experience while showing that violating the rules will not be tolerated.


I don't know enough about the history of who was banned or why to agree to that at this time, but I'm willing to listen. Drop me an e-mail at erikr@matrixgames.com and I'll discuss it with the mods here to get myself up to speed.

Regards,

- Erik



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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 18
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 2:43:43 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I refer people to both of those threads and suggest that they go through them but they also need to look through the patch notes.

I also refer some people to some AARs so they can read what other people do, especially if there is discussion among players as to the best course to take. But always, play the game that you want to play.

I do not refer people to any videos.

Someone had been working on a new manual but discontinued that project.


What’s the problem with Dojo’s tutorial series for this or other GG games? He weaves mechanics with strategy where you can follow along and repeat the process. Doing yourself is best. He creates excitement for the games.

He also points out great map, Sea Bee Configurator, Kulls XLS.

Even if Matrix had budget they could not buy better. And Matrix has no budget.

His LPs are a waste of time he wastes half a video on greeting his fans on twitch.

After Arumba for Paradox, he is one of the best.


Personally, I appreciate his enthusiasm for our games. I think it's part of his style that he learns as he plays rather than mastering the game fully before starting to record and play. I haven't watched his WITP tutorials, but his WITE2 videos certainly helped quite a few players.

Regards,

- Erik


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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to MarkShot)
Post #: 19
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 2:44:48 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Thats a great idea.
I found the following thread very helpful when I started out with the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Though some of the info are outdated, for example as far as I know the wiki mentioned there never really came to materialize properly.
But otherwise a lot of great stuff.


This looks great - it was last updated in 2015 though, is it still up to date with the current state of the game?


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 20
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 2:46:07 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo
Erik there is already FAQ thread in the War Room
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137


Thanks, that also looks quite helpful but it sounds like it could use updating? If there's nothing fully up to date, would anyone be willing to update the two first links into a new combined thread?

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Post #: 21
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 2:46:29 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spanno
There is also WITPAE A forum squeeze that is available on the forums, that collates some useful forum posts.


Do you have a link for that?


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Post #: 22
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 6:41:13 AM   
OnWargaming


Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Do you have a link for that?



Hi Erik,

not a forum direct link but inside you can find an external one (5th post, I think some things are outdated in this document).
Moreover you can find very useful screenshots by Korvar as well (same thread).

I would add every Alfred's 101 guide.

Do you think it will be ever possible to have an updated manual like WitE?

Commercial proposal: what about a WitP:AE for Dummies?
You have to spend lot of time finding useful informations about the game spread over thousands thread and not all of them are accurate. Also tons of infos are included in the AAR (I have skimmed some of them and there are pretty good advices about strategy and production).
If you can "hire" a veteran with several games under his belt that can produce a meaningfull guide could be an instant buy for lot of people.

Just my 2 cents being a newbie myself.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 23
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 7:07:15 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtParmentier

The FAQ has some wrong statements (slightly outdated).


It's a starting point. Just correct the inaccuracies nowever the main problem in all this is the manual. If this was updated with detailed info instead of sketchy outlines on how stuff worked none of the FAQ would be needed.

(in reply to AtParmentier)
Post #: 24
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 7:26:25 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Thats a great idea.
I found the following thread very helpful when I started out with the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Though some of the info are outdated, for example as far as I know the wiki mentioned there never really came to materialize properly.
But otherwise a lot of great stuff.


This looks great - it was last updated in 2015 though, is it still up to date with the current state of the game?


The majority of the content should not be out of date(someone please correct me if I am wrong).
But the FAQ is also linked there that, as mentioned, does contain some outdated information.
Otherwise the most important guides and AARs are linked in there that should help a lot in starting out with the game.
I would say it is the best we currently have without making a complete new thread.
And a new thread would probably in large part be a copy of that one.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 25
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 12:31:24 PM   
littleike

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		I made the forum squeeze many years ago.
I posted it under the netwargaming forum (here the link)


https://www.netwargamingitalia.net/forum/resources/?order=download_count

I see now in the download section that it has reached near 5.000 downloads
so i am glad if it has been of help for someone.

But the document is outdated and many informations could be inaccurate or even wrong.

Anyway if you think that some sort of collection could be of help for new players use it.

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Post #: 26
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 1:31:02 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming
Do you think it will be ever possible to have an updated manual like WitE?


It's certainly possible, but only likely if WITP:AE were to be updated or re-developed, or if a community member were interested in doing this as a volunteer project.

quote:

Commercial proposal: what about a WitP:AE for Dummies?
You have to spend lot of time finding useful informations about the game spread over thousands thread and not all of them are accurate. Also tons of infos are included in the AAR (I have skimmed some of them and there are pretty good advices about strategy and production).
If you can "hire" a veteran with several games under his belt that can produce a meaningfull guide could be an instant buy for lot of people.


I'd be willing to compensate for this if a community veteran is willing to step forward and take on such a project, to have a consolidated and up to date guide for beginners for WITP-AE.

Regards,

- Erik



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Post #: 27
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 5:15:33 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
I took a look at that about a year ago.

My idea was to annotate the manual and combine it with an illustrated
player guide using a widescreen layout.

This allows the errors in the existing manual to be be corrected without altering
the existing manual and then the manual pages and the illustrated guide can arranged side by side.

There are significant challenges to this.

First, there is not another game that I have found that has the complexity when you get
under the skin that this game has. That complexity comes in multiple layers with the difficult
mechanics first, then the way the UI works and followed by the intricate details of
the Japanese economy and production. Then the tactical complexities which you certainly
want to cover in a player guide.

Almost every screen in the game has multiple options available and you are going to
also cover the Flyouts. That is a lot of information even before tactical considerations.

Second, I don’t think one player can do the entire thing. You need a small team.
You need multiple players to edit and advise.

The graphics are not simple but they can be handled.
I could handle that with another player just using my simple tools.

As an example I’ve attached a screenshot of a carrier raid that covers the planning and then
Illustrates the raid all the way step by step. There is a lot there but it still does not cover everything.

If I were going to do this and assemble a small team I would take
Kull, Mike Solli, PaxMondo to start; and then tap select other forum members as it develops.

And of course Alfred. Essential.

But…....The biggest obstacle is the majority of new players won’t read it.
They don’t study the documentation that exists now.

You can tell by their questions that they are not reading anything.
The are not reading the manual. Many can’t even find the manual.

That is just a three step process:
1. I just downloaded the game from Matrix but I don’t have a manual.
2. Matrix would not sell me a digital game without a manual.
3. Maybe I should look in the game files.

Nope, don’t want to do that. I’ll just jump on the forum and ask.
Forum: Why don’t you look in the game files.

Player guide…..A lot of work for very small return.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 28
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 5:26:24 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		A key goal in doing this is that if there is a single location or guide to direct new players to, then saying "Read the Fine Manual" wouldn't mean "Also read these 50 threads and 100 AARs". There's no way to really make this a small learning curve, but it can be a less confusing or scattered curve.

An updated guide such as you describe could also be included in a re-master and featured on the game launcher.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 29
RE: Proposal for New Players - 11/15/2021 5:38:33 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Oh wow, that looks awesome Trugrit

While in my comparative short time here I have also seen my fair share of people who can't even find the current existing manual (or just outright refuse to read it), I would still argue that people who actually want to master the game and ultimately stick with it will benefit a lot from such an illustrated guide.

You can't teach people who refuse to learn, but for those who want to learn, something like that would be huge help.

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 30
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