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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Turn 68

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RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 5:16:58 PM

jubjub

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Anyway, that's enough on that topic. It's like beating a dead horse. Just thought I'd share a couple more examples and then I got sucked into opining.

I was massing troops in the area to cut the Rzhev salient when this little opportunity presented itself. Each of those panzer divisions in the salient is loaded to the brim with my best support units, but they are each only around 50% TOE. We'll see if the pocket holds. He's got Guards tank corps in the vicinity, so I doubt it.

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< Message edited by jubjub -- 10/28/2021 5:17:42 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 5:32:04 PM

Jango32

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Maybe some reserve activations from the units unlikely to be attacked.

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Post #: 62

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 5:34:46 PM

jubjub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jango32

Maybe some reserve activations from the units unlikely to be attacked.

Everything is spent. No extra MP on anything.

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Post #: 63

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 8:32:11 PM

AlbertN

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I feel for the production problem - seeing also other potential issue. I understand there is a limit of armament points but I see that Axis has already some peculiar limits (ie. 1 or 2 pieces a week of this or that gun), and then there is the problem ontop of that, that these pieces of equipment are not even crafted each turn to make them even more rarer!

On the air war the Soviets can get pretty nifty results I've seen - they just need to mass fighters and swarm one sector and in 2-3 turns annihilate the local JG squadron pretty much - at least experienced that in '41.
Germany has OptionA, to fight in the skies, and whilst inflicting serious losses to the Soviets they also suffer an amount of losses. (Ratio was roughly 10:1 favoring Germans on T1 and dropped some on T2 and as T3 approaches... German JG has 50% force so may ponder to relocate it before to take the pounding on the ground or so, unable to stop Soviet bombrers for the third turn or shift another).

So I'd say give it some time and see if the Soviets persists here - and mostly if their effort is focused in -1- single sector thus aiming to bang hard one of the JGs and not all across the board.

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Post #: 64

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 9:34:08 PM

jubjub

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quote:

On the air war the Soviets can get pretty nifty results I've seen - they just need to mass fighters and swarm one sector and in 2-3 turns annihilate the local JG squadron pretty much - at least experienced that in '41.

Yes, that's another problem: the combat seems way too intense on a per sortie basis. Take this example from my soviet game. 42% / 95% casualty rate for Germans / Soviets. Three of the 109 squadrons take 75%, 50%, and 77% casualties. Absolute win for the Soviets, but IMO, in this situation, the losses on both sides should be lower than 10 (except for the 44 xp squad - that one deserves to get wiped lol). The Germans also take 4 ops losses, which may be due to combat damage, but at least one of them wasn't.

This ties into what I've been saying: more sorties, more bombing, less losses per sorties.

Part of the problem is that the Yak-1's speed is 20 MPH lower than it should be, so it has a hard time running away. I have no idea where they get the source for their plane specifications, but some of them are very far off from anything I can find.

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< Message edited by jubjub -- 10/28/2021 9:36:06 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 9:39:33 PM

AlbertN

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As a Soviet I'd trade 2:1 for Germans any day - and that fight is even better than 2:1 favoring Soviets!
Also -44- is the BEST PILOT of the group. Not all the group for what I understood. (In general that number is of the top ace, not the group average)

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Post #: 66

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 9:58:11 PM

jubjub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

As a Soviet I'd trade 2:1 for Germans any day - and that fight is even better than 2:1 favoring Soviets!
Also -44- is the BEST PILOT of the group. Not all the group for what I understood. (In general that number is of the top ace, not the group average)

I thought that was the average... That was probably some of their first time stepping into a plane lol

quote:

As a Soviet I'd trade 2:1 for Germans any day - and that fight is even better than 2:1 favoring Soviets!

Yes, sometimes the Soviets actually won fights and lived to tell the tale. In the current system, it's like they're stuck in a cage match every time.

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Post #: 67

RE: Turn 68 - 10/28/2021 10:03:42 PM

jubjub

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I would say this was moderate to low usage of the air forces on either side. Pretty much zeroed out the Luftwaffe and VVS plane reserves in 10 turns. I don't even have any I-153's left, and I'm running low on I-16's to train pilots!

Any time I try to use my good planes and good pilots, they get zeroed out immediately, so it's not even rewarding to try to build elite air groups.

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Post #: 68

RE: Turn 69 - 10/29/2021 4:20:55 PM

jubjub

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Pocket didn't hold, as expected, but 3rd Pz Army expands the salient and adds another Guards Rifle Corps and Tank Corps (plus 6 brigades) into the pocket. Hopefully it holds this time (unlikely). A benefit of this move is that it has taken pressure off elsewhere, so I am transferring the rest of 2nd and 4th Pz Armies' mobile assets to the area as well.

We'll probably have to keep duking it out until heavy mud hits on his turn in two weeks (there's currently a high pressure front preventing heavy rain), in which case, I should have the last attacking opportunity.

There's a possible supply bug that I've asked Gam3r to investigate. The soft factor shown is supply, and it's showing bright green on all of the pocketed units from last turn.

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< Message edited by jubjub -- 10/29/2021 4:24:49 PM >

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Post #: 69

RE: Turn 68 - 10/29/2021 4:43:56 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Any time I try to use my good planes and good pilots, they get zeroed out immediately, so it's not even rewarding to try to build elite air groups.

Glad to see someone else has seen what I saw back in April of this year. My post #216 & #208 as reference. As always Jubjub excellent job.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4998097&mpage=7&key=

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Post #: 70

RE: Turn 65 - 10/30/2021 4:33:44 AM

Gam3r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Update:

Going for Voronezh was a mistake, and I should've continued to Tula or gone for Stalingrad instead.

I'm invited back to the AAR.

My winter offensive in the South sector was stuck upon impenetrable wall of SS units there.

Decision were made to erect Forts along the Don river with all sapper brigades attached to them to build fortification. Forts splits in two sectors: North - covering Voronezh region, South - covering Road to Caucasus. Road to Stalingrad left uncovered, due to insufficent cement stockpile (Fort unit limits).

By the beginning of spring, 90% of that line was on level3 Forts, and army start to fall back to a new position. Rostov IIRC was even on level4

Turns out it was a good defensive line: F_lvl3, behind major river, some forts with arty/AT regiments. and it was costly for Axis to assault this. at least before 0.15 patch.

Again. if Axis choose to stick with Fall Blau plan, and rush right toward Stalingrad with a little turn South. They would force the Caucasus Front to withdraw from Don around Rostov. And we all see historical Summer 42 offensive, maybe with historical encirclement around Stalingrad, but that was pure speculation :)

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Post #: 71

RE: Turn 68 - 10/30/2021 4:44:33 AM

Gam3r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Air Losses:
With an air combat ratio of 22:1 for the Germans, it just doesn't seem like the air combat is being modeled accurately.

I'm playing AI vs AI game.

Both sides spread their assets along entire Front. And thus, Soviet can gain at least parity in some sectors.
But when we concentrate like in Battle fo Sevastopol, or this one - almost no chance for VVS.

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Post #: 72

RE: Turn 70 - 10/30/2021 1:42:14 PM

jubjub

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Incredibly, the pocket holds and is liquidated. Quite a nice haul if you ask me.

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Post #: 73

RE: Turn 70 - 10/30/2021 2:12:35 PM

jubjub

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This likely marks the end of the Axis offensive for '42. The panzer fleet is trashed, the supply situation remains poor, and the only armies that remain in good shape are 18th and 16th armies, which have stayed away from the main action. There are still a couple of interesting salients on the map, and my focus is now shifting to how to defend these and avoid a 'Stalingrad' situation.

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Post #: 74

RE: Turn 70 - 10/30/2021 2:13:34 PM

jubjub

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OOB and Losses update:

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Post #: 75

RE: Turn 70 - 11/2/2021 11:13:14 AM

Gam3r

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Blizzard hit the ground.

Red Army ready to bash Axis as soon as devs check the minor bug in the saves.

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Post #: 76

RE: Turn 70 - 11/2/2021 3:55:14 PM

jubjub

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quote:

Blizzard hit the ground.

Red Army ready to bash Axis as soon as devs check the minor bug in the saves.

What he said.. Bad news for the Wehrmacht. Panzers were forced to traverse heavy mud to take up defensive positions :(

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Post #: 77

RE: Turn 70 - 11/2/2021 4:32:20 PM

Gam3r

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Devs got the saves.

OREL LIBERATED!!!

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Post #: 78

RE: Turn 70 - 11/2/2021 5:09:49 PM

Beethoven1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

Devs got the saves.

OREL LIBERATED!!!

Good job taking Orel! Minor suggestion - I would suggest pulling the motorized regiments attached to the guards rifle corps and attaching them to some mobile units instead. You should be able to save some trucks that way. And then attach some rifle brigades to the Guards Rifle Corps instead. Although, of course you may have done this just because this was an important attack and it was all that was available at the time. But in the future, you can save some trucks maybe.

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Post #: 79

RE: Turn 75 - 11/4/2021 11:30:58 PM

jubjub

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There's a little bit of yin yang going on here. Third Pz army got a weird break in the weather and went for it. Hopefully by cutting the double track from Moscow, the Soviet's supply situation will deteriorate.

The weather last turn was heavy rain, and this turn it's blizzard. These combined to produce clear ground weather!! It should all turn to snow on his turn, so hopefully that impedes whatever counter-attack he throws up here.

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< Message edited by jubjub -- 11/4/2021 11:32:56 PM >

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Post #: 80

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 11:05:04 AM

Gam3r

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That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

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Post #: 81

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 1:21:04 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather :) But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

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Post #: 82

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 2:02:43 PM

jubjub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather :) But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

Beats getting endlessly ground down by Guards Rifle Corps.

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Post #: 83

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 2:27:53 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather :) But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

Beats getting endlessly ground down by Guards Rifle Corps.

I think it is GREAT! It was a good chance and you took it. I LOVE it. It isn't the first blizzard so it is all good.

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Post #: 84

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 2:38:08 PM

jubjub

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Cut the rail line to V-L and save my isolated divisions. Start pushing into the salient to reduce the area I have to defend. It shouldn't be possible to counter attack from that side of the salient anymore.

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Post #: 85

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 3:07:14 PM

jubjub

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Losses. Gam3r tried some airfield bombing. It didn't go very well. Also bombed my railyard in Vyazma, which did a lot of damage, but at a steep price. Didn't seem to impact the freight through Vyazma too much.

Those AFV losses though

240 losses is steep for me too, but I'll take 10:1 any day. Panzer III's are about to be obsolete anyway.

About 25,000 of those losses are axis allies. They've done a fine job taking some L's for the Germans.

< Message edited by jubjub -- 11/5/2021 3:11:47 PM >

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Post #: 86

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 3:17:41 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Cut the rail line to V-L and save my isolated divisions. Start pushing into the salient to reduce the area I have to defend. It shouldn't be possible to counter attack from that side of the salient anymore.

Be interesting now to see the Soviet supply in the VL salient with the Main dual track cut from Moscow relying on two single tracks feeding the Leningrad area.

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Post #: 87

RE: Turn 75 - 11/5/2021 3:18:58 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Losses. Gam3r tried some airfield bombing. It didn't go very well. Also bombed my railyard in Vyazma, which did a lot of damage, but at a steep price. Didn't seem to impact the freight through Vyazma too much.

The numbers seem to speak of a German victory in the air :)

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Post #: 88

RE: Turn 80 - 11/16/2021 7:13:09 PM

jubjub

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It's officially 1943, and with the national morale dropping 5 points, the quality of the standard German divisions will soon be on par with the Soviet Guard formations.

The main axis of the Soviet attack has been falling on the area east of Bryansk. 2nd Army and 2nd Panzer Army are faced with a wall of Guard Rifle Corps backed up by on-map artillery divisions. These two armies are currently on the back foot, retreating about 10 miles each turn. Fortunately, divisions are finally starting to trickle in from France, so hopefully they can reinforce before the situation becomes a rout.