Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO?

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Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO?

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Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/18/2021 7:17:50 AM

MarkShot

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I just finished DOJO's WITP-AE. You can clearly see the evolution, but it is far more clear with WITW and WITE-2.

But the thing which is most striking is the subject: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO?

I am really curious what motivated such a major change in the trajectory of the series?

Thanks.

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(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

Post #: 1

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/18/2021 5:12:37 PM

AlbertN

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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I cannot answer for the developers since I am a mere player.

WITP is still turn based, just the WEGO and not IGO-UGO.

I believe a IGO-UGO system is easier to code than a WEGO first and foremost.

Also I am not exactly sure that WITP-AE is ... 'Macro'. I've got the game and it has such massive levels of micromanagements that I cannot play it.
So I believe at best we have gone to a MICRO to LESS MICRO but still lots of it!

WITE2 is playable though without heaps of micromanagement at a decent level, and it has a neat min-max diminishing return.

I've seen some WITP-AE AARs and there is a guy that for instance mathes in all the time for each single cargo ship that needs to travel from point A to point B, the turns it takes to load up its cargo, how to fuel it etc.

I'd love to manage to play WITP-AE at a competitive level, but I feel at this stage I may as well gain a bachelor level in Engineering or so, and gain a nice and well paid job in turn!
WITE is simply ... immediate. If in the past Windows had the 'Plug and Play' WITE is to WITP-AE that - Load and Play.

You can begin to shuffle counters around with a more user friendly interface and see things happen.

Thus ultimately market accessibility and fruition are the reasons.

(in reply to MarkShot)

Post #: 2

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/18/2021 5:52:36 PM

Joel Billings

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Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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After doing several WEGO War in the East games in the 80s and 90s, we wanted to change it up. With the success of turn based games like Panzer General and after having personally enjoyed John Tiller's Panzer Campaigns Smolensk, we felt we could do a simpler WitE game that gave players immediate payoff as they played their turn. We thought it would be better received. Based on the reaction, I think we were right.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 3

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/19/2021 1:24:12 AM

GibsonPete

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Joined: 11/5/2014
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Joel I think the right call was made on the games design.

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(in reply to Joel Billings)

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RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/19/2021 6:50:34 AM

MarkShot

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Joel,

Actually, WITW and WITE-2 really made me rethink my uncompromising position on WEGO (like CM) or Continuous (like Panther).

I think it initially began with Richard Scott's Field of Glory 2. It is a game that can be very slow with combat reports matching your series given that is ancients, but it can also be played very fast without no loss of strategy. When I looked at that compared with even the best mods of TW Rome 1 and TW Rome 2, I realized that I had been too stubborn about turns and hexes.

Now, I don't think anyone will ever accuse 2by3 of promoting speed runs, but you do offer quite a spectrum from the slowest and most micro play to AI support and faster play. I think most war gamers whether they will choose Panther or 2by3 care about the history, the education, and the understanding which is brought to the table. I think 2by3 does this very well across 3 battle space of conflict, and the strong tie in to logistics and transport (as it regards pace).

I am in my 4th decade of PC gaming. I am glad to say that I am no longer a TBS/HEX bigot.

Thanks!

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(於 11/13/21 台北，台灣，中國退休)

(in reply to GibsonPete)

Post #: 5

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/19/2021 11:22:46 AM

speedyglides

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Joined: 10/1/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

After doing several WEGO War in the East games in the 80s and 90s, we wanted to change it up. With the success of turn based games like Panzer General and after having personally enjoyed John Tiller's Panzer Campaigns Smolensk, we felt we could do a simpler WitE game that gave players immediate payoff as they played their turn. We thought it would be better received. Based on the reaction, I think we were right.

You were

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 6

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/28/2021 12:17:56 AM

onlysane1

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Joined: 12/12/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

With the success of turn based games like Panzer General and after having personally enjoyed John Tiller's Panzer Campaigns Smolensk, we felt we could do a simpler WitE game that gave players immediate payoff as they played their turn.

I never thought that "simpler" would be used to describe a design choice for WitE, yet here we are lol

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 7

RE: Why did the series WEGO/MACRO -> TBS/MICRO? - 11/30/2021 1:00:08 PM

Cavalry Corp

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Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
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I really wish in PBEM there was a combat replay - that is entertainment in itself. I think looking round the map to every battle is tedious and it will get even worse if you link future titles up. just my comment.

(in reply to onlysane1)

Post #: 8