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Can I delete missions without problems?

 
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Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 1:13:03 PM   
Swant

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/19/2020
Status: offline 		I like to set up my own missions, so I usually delete all the premade missions and reference points when starting a new scenario (my side only).
Is there any potential problems doing so?
I'm talking about mission triggers, allied AI and things of that nature
Post #: 1
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 1:34:48 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Swant

I like to set up my own missions, so I usually delete all the premade missions and reference points when starting a new scenario (my side only).
Is there any potential problems doing so?
I'm talking about mission triggers, allied AI and things of that nature


Short Answer: Generally ok to delete them.

Longer Answer: Be carful the Reference Points (RPs) aren't used for assigning Victory Points or other scenario critical function! Whenever I design I assume the player will delete any missions I up. Sometimes the scenario situation just needs some missions for the story line. Example: A CVG without an ASW Mission off the Kola Peninsula is just unrealistic. If a mission is scenario critical the designer(s) should state so in the Scenario Description.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 11/22/2021 1:36:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Swant)
Post #: 2
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 1:58:46 PM   
Swant

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/19/2020
Status: offline 		Ok good to know, thank you.
I remember that in your scenario Curacao Crisis (very good by the way) you stated in the briefing not to delete some RPs

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 3
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 3:00:54 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline 		I agree with Al that in general you can delete the missions with no harm to the scenario.

That being said, you may find that some of the missions that have been set up by the authors are pretty useful to have around. Rather than delete them, you may find it advantageous to adjust them to your liking, as opposed to deleting them completely. US carrier groups will always have CAP and AEW. Deleting those to just create them once again takes time. If you want fewer (or more) units on CAP, then you could just adjust it. You can move the reference points around rather than deleting them and creating them once again.

When I create a scenario I create it to be played from both sides, so I will have missions set up for each. I don't believe that any scenario designer takes offense to the game player ever deleting any of their missions, but I would recommend that you do so only after deciding that you really don't want the mission. Otherwise, just change it to what you do want.

In answer to you question, I agree will Al, for the most part you can eliminate almost everything without causing an issue.

< Message edited by DWReese -- 11/22/2021 5:01:25 PM >

(in reply to Swant)
Post #: 4
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 3:33:23 PM   
Swant

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/19/2020
Status: offline 		I agree that the missions usually are very usefully. That's one of the reason I like to delete them before looking to closely. As a challenge.
When finish a scenario I like to compare my choices with the choices made the designer.
I often find that mine are inferior :)

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 5
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 3:36:43 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Command is so rich in detail and ways to do things that you never stop learning. I've been playing (and designing) for years and I learn something new every day. By far this has to be the most complex, flexible and immersive simulation out there. So we're all learning from each other here on the boards!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Swant)
Post #: 6
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 3:42:26 PM   
Swant

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/19/2020
Status: offline 		Definitely!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 7
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/22/2021 5:17:55 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		To be clear, deleting missions for the AI side would not work at all. But I am sure you are talking about the player side's missions. Without missions, the AI will not be instructed to do anything. It's not uncommon to reprogram the entire scenario leaving the OOB basically the same. But the AI side has to have orders.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to Swant)
Post #: 8
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/23/2021 4:19:12 PM   
KnightHawk75

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

To be clear, deleting missions for the AI side would not work at all. But I am sure you are talking about the player side's missions. Without missions, the AI will not be instructed to do anything. It's not uncommon to reprogram the entire scenario leaving the OOB basically the same. But the AI side has to have orders.


Yup don't touch the AI side(s) missions etc.
Read author's notes\scene briefings fully - generally if RP's or mission need to stay around (or stay around for awhile) they are mentioned. My general rule of thumb is let the scene play for 10 seconds before changing stuff, some authors do initial setup\randomization\spawning in the first couple seconds of a scene instead of on-load.



(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 9
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/23/2021 7:05:31 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

...some authors do initial setup\randomization\spawning in the first couple seconds of a scene instead of on-load.


Indeed I do this a lot for both variable entry (I like it for subs) and teleporting units that have a mission assigned (SAG ASW Missions for example). So that is a good rule of thumb. If I need you to run it I try to make sure I mention it in the notes, but I also noted that people get impatient and don't read everything.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 11/23/2021 7:06:07 PM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to KnightHawk75)
Post #: 10
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/24/2021 1:40:49 AM   
boogabooga

 

Posts: 457
Joined: 7/18/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swant

I like to set up my own missions, so I usually delete all the premade missions and reference points when starting a new scenario (my side only).
Is there any potential problems doing so?
I'm talking about mission triggers, allied AI and things of that nature


Short Answer: Generally ok to delete them.

Longer Answer: Be carful the Reference Points (RPs) aren't used for assigning Victory Points or other scenario critical function! Whenever I design I assume the player will delete any missions I up. Sometimes the scenario situation just needs some missions for the story line. Example: A CVG without an ASW Mission off the Kola Peninsula is just unrealistic. If a mission is scenario critical the designer(s) should state so in the Scenario Description.


You can create a new allied side that just has the reference points. They player can't modify or delete them, but they are still active in the trigger logic.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 11
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/24/2021 1:31:09 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

You can create a new allied side that just has the reference points. They player can't modify or delete them, but they are still active in the trigger logic.


How does that work for the side's missions, do the RPs need to assigned via Lua?

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to boogabooga)
Post #: 12
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/24/2021 2:19:20 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

You can create a new allied side that just has the reference points. They player can't modify or delete them, but they are still active in the trigger logic.


How does that work for the side's missions, do the RPs need to assigned via Lua?


It doesn't work for mission but this method works for triggers quite well and I try to have all triggers on a non-player side so that they cannot be deleted, unless the player deliberately switches sides and does so.

The fundamental question if I understand it - can you delete missions and RPs for a player side without affecting the scenario. I think generally yes, as has been said above. Two caveats:

1. some early scenarios or scenarios by some designers do have triggers on the player side - so it is worth thinking that through.
2. some RPs are used as markers to give the player an indication of where on the map something should be done - these are often also triggers. They are often labeled to indicated their purpose and they are usually also locked.

As for player side missions - I sometimes throw up my hands in frustration. If I put them in, players complain. If I don't put them in, players complain. So on this subject I tend to just do what I think is right. Grumbling ends....


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(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 13
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/24/2021 7:09:21 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

It doesn't work for mission but this method works for triggers quite well and I try to have all triggers on a non-player side so that they cannot be deleted, unless the player deliberately switches sides and does so.


Got it. Going to check that out for future scenarios! Like I said in another post, we're all learning something about this game every day! Thanks guys!

quote:

As for player side missions - I sometimes throw up my hands in frustration. If I put them in, players complain. If I don't put them in, players complain. So on this subject I tend to just do what I think is right. Grumbling ends...


I feel your pain here!!!!! See my post comments on "Command Scenario Mission Creep" as well! This why I started saying in my descriptions, "You have to stop somewhere!"

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 14
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 11/24/2021 7:59:08 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		There is no perfect solution. However, a lot of missions used for playtesting should be removed before the the scenario is released. Leaving a few missions like an initial CAP or ASUW are OK. But the briefing might want to explain why they remain. And they should never put the player side into an ambush. In the end, it's up to the player to configure their missions. But giving newer players a bit of a head start is not a bad idea.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 15
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 12/21/2021 8:37:12 AM   
jannas34

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/9/2020
Status: offline 		Good luck getting this fixed

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 16
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 12/21/2021 8:39:04 AM   
Stanley_The_Rolmate

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/2/2021
Status: offline 		message deleted

< Message edited by Stanley_The_Rolmate -- 12/21/2021 8:40:40 AM >

(in reply to jannas34)
Post #: 17
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 12/21/2021 8:40:56 AM   
jannas34

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/9/2020
Status: offline 		the game sucks ass and the matrix splash screen makes sure you cant get a refund

(in reply to Stanley_The_Rolmate)
Post #: 18
RE: Can I delete missions without problems? - 12/21/2021 8:41:52 AM   
jannas34

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/9/2020
Status: offline 		LOL mr angry deletes his message!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jannas34

the game sucks ass and the matrix splash screen makes sure you cant get a refund


(in reply to jannas34)
Post #: 19
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