Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner Garidel

I won't try to address what you have said from a game standpoint because I'm a newbie. I WILL address it, however, based on my experience in the USMC and many years reading and studying military history.

I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Clausewitz who wrote defense is inherently the stronger form of war by a factor of 3 to 1. This has proven true throughout history. e.g. The USMC island hopping campaign in WW II is a very pertinent [and close to my heart] example. At the Battle of Tarawa it took the 18,000 Marines of the 2nd MarDiv [76] hours to defeat only 4,500 Japanese troops, in spite of the fact the US had Air Supremacy and the firepower of a Navy Task Force at its disposal. This was primarily due to the heavily fortified Betio Island. The 2nd MarDiv had more casualties in the [76] hour battle than the 1st MarDiv suffered in its SIX MONTH campaign at Guadalcanal.

So what's my point? You cannot rely on just throwing bodies at a fortified city. Even if you outnumber the defenders by 3 to 1, you don't take a knife to a gun-fight. As the previous posters pointed out, you need additional support units: assault troops, engineers, artillery, air support, etc, etc, ad nauseum. In war, there's no such thing as too much firepower. Bullets are cheap, dead grunts are expensive....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Taking an urban hex that is heavily defended is not likely in WitE2 unless it is isolated. Unless you're dealing with a defense of just one or two weak divisions, a strong defending force that can be resupplied and reinforced is not going to fall (see Stalingrad). Best to bypass and isolate unless only up against a token defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner Garidel

I won't try to address what you have said from a game standpoint because I'm a newbie. I WILL address it, however, based on my experience in the USMC and many years reading and studying military history.

I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Clausewitz who wrote defense is inherently the stronger form of war by a factor of 3 to 1. This has proven true throughout history. e.g. The USMC island hopping campaign in WW II is a very pertinent [and close to my heart] example. At the Battle of Tarawa it took the 18,000 Marines of the 2nd MarDiv [76] hours to defeat only 4,500 Japanese troops, in spite of the fact the US had Air Supremacy and the firepower of a Navy Task Force at its disposal. This was primarily due to the heavily fortified Betio Island. The 2nd MarDiv had more casualties in the [76] hour battle than the 1st MarDiv suffered in its SIX MONTH campaign at Guadalcanal.

So what's my point? You cannot rely on just throwing bodies at a fortified city. Even if you outnumber the defenders by 3 to 1, you don't take a knife to a gun-fight. As the previous posters pointed out, you need additional support units: assault troops, engineers, artillery, air support, etc, etc, ad nauseum. In war, there's no such thing as too much firepower. Bullets are cheap, dead grunts are expensive....

I am a former Marine as well. (Artillery Fire-Direction-Control)

I thoroughly agree with the "3-to-1" ratio and wish the game based its successful combat outcomes on this instead of the current "2-to-1". As a computer scientist, I feel the mathematics involved in using a 3-to-1 baseline facilitates a more uniform combat model.

But anyways... for a new player trying to predict the impact of adding engineers or fortress-busting artillery and air support are further ill-defined and nebulous within the game. (as if fortress-busting is ever defined?) Unfortunately, in-game experience is the only way to get a feel for it. And even then, through trial and error.

There is an overly steep learning curve for new players. I pity the new player who goes head-to-head with anyone with any level of experience.

The CV values currently displayed offer only a bare minimum ability to predict likely combat outcomes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777
And yet the Axis must take a certain number of cities to avoid a sudden death loss, and if you bypass and cut off everything after turn 2, you may not reach that point total. So it was that I found myself in my first PBEM game having to make a 3 or 4 hex (~ 12 Divs with support) attack against Rostov to get to the 525 points needed, and the Soviet player has a fort with a CV around 300. So it certainly is tough to gain cities for points, especially for those of us who never played WiTE1.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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