RE: Game Balance

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[Poll]

Game Balance

Axis are generally too strong

26% (5)

Axis are slightly too strong

31% (6)

Game is balanced

26% (5)

Allies are slightly too strong

5% (1)

Allies are incredibly strong

5% (1)

Tanks and mech are too strong thats the problem

5% (1)

Total Votes : 19

(last vote on : 11/19/2021 7:15:56 AM)
(Poll ended: 11/21/2021 7:00:00 AM)

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RE: Game Balance - 10/8/2021 7:54:28 AM

MagicMissile

Posts: 1629
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I dont think the idea might be bad but I think I would start with the first 6 and hold off with number 7 and see how that plays out.

/MM

(in reply to YueJin)

Post #: 31

RE: Game Balance - 10/9/2021 1:11:47 AM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

Or�.
7b) don�t kill the ZOC�s of displaced or destroyed units (slowing movement thru break thru zones)

True, but this would affect the Axis in France too much. France would not fall until late August or September. I think this would work great if the map was increased in size by 25% to50%. Having a limit of 3 divisions (ie a Large Corps) in a hex where historically 6 divisions or more were employed is a bit much. But something like this will have to wait for Warplan 2.

(in reply to aoffen)

Post #: 32

RE: Game Balance - 10/9/2021 2:28:08 AM

battlevonwar

Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
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Skill was always the deciding factor for me despite the patches. Though the new patches are pretty huge since 7 months ago.

I wiped out a player from here 3 times in a row as Axis. Another player wiped my Axis out 2 times in a row ... then it was a close fought game! At that patch we agreed the Allies in the right hands just survive and Smash the Axis with #s in '44-'45.

I think key differences come in how well you exploit things. Like one player was exploited the interception rules, The amphibious Invasion Rules... Also the Neutral Convoys. The tiny things early in the game add up big later. People don't realize the mistakes they make. I see so many I've made later come back to cost me.

As I primarily play Axis but have played Allies it is a tough game to balance. Nobody wants to play with the same result over and over. There will always be gripes when 1 side finds advantages.

Russia does need to survive as is it requires a great Allied Player to make that happen. I think a player not as skilled can win as Axis. The Allies are overall much more complex and require more strategic and tactical knowledge. At least to get to 1942-43 alive!

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 33

RE: Game Balance - 10/12/2021 3:37:36 AM

generalfdog

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/18/2020
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I think air power should be a little stronger i think the new patch is a good start especially with strategic bombing, but tactical air should be a little more effective as well, Germanys early success was in large part due to superior air power, also their downfall once control of the air was lost Germany was no longer effective offensively.

(in reply to YueJin)

Post #: 34

RE: Game Balance - 10/12/2021 3:39:56 AM

generalfdog

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I think Russian and US production is to low as well by late 42 they should be far greater than Germanys

(in reply to YueJin)

Post #: 35

RE: Game Balance - 11/17/2021 11:34:55 PM

generalfdog

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don't know if it would be a good idea or not but what if Axis were reduced to some sort port supply like system in Russia where they had big supply hubs in say Rumania Poland and East Prussia and the further they went from them the less units could be effectively supplied and bad weather would make it worse, much like the problems Japan has in WPP when they venture to far into China Russia or India. Considering the different rail gauge in Russia Germanys lack of motor transport, Russia's poor roads and Germanys inability to adequality supply their armies deep in Russia it would probably be easiest way to hamper Axis on eastern front, giving Russia a home turf advantage without giving Russia to much of a late game advantage because as Germany gets pushed back they wouldn't have the Issues anymore

(in reply to YueJin)

Post #: 36

RE: Game Balance - 11/18/2021 2:31:14 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
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A couple adds to the next patch that should balance it out more. Armor is really the killer unbalancer in the game. But changing it will unbalance it more.

So now air interdiction of movement has been increased and shown on your turn on the enemy. It was 20-30% now it will be 35-50% depending on the status of a full air unit.

Swapping units keeps entrenchment now.

rail repair rate 3 -> 2 again. This should impact going into Russia and coming out.

I also increased manpower production for Germany +2. I noticed they quickly and completely run out by 1944 as they get smashed but have plenty of production. The manpower increase should net 260 mp = ~9 infantry corps for defense. But it still impacts the quality of the troops.

As for Russian production......
It is correct. The Russians lost a tremendous amount of men and equipment that is incredibly hard to write into the game. As is all the games I played the losses for the Germans and Russians were very close upto 1943. Realistically they should be at least 2:1.

So take the battle of Kursk. They lost so many more tanks than Germany. So in the game the production is abstracted for this consideration.

< Message edited by AlvaroSousa -- 11/19/2021 1:51:25 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Game Balance - 11/18/2021 2:31:48 PM

AlvaroSousa

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There will also be a Small Fleet scenario in the new patch. But both players need to have the same new patch installed for it to work. It will not kill older games.

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 38

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 1:48:40 AM

generalfdog

Posts: 214
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So just curious while those seem like good improvements, except for the rail repair rate which will initially hurt Germany I don't see how this will help initial Russian fortunes which seems to be most peoples complaint

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 39

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 2:25:37 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Joined: 7/29/2013
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Reduced rail repair means armor won't recover as fast running around like energetic children. It does make a difference. Before the rail repair rate was 2 but the Germans were too weak and couldn't get to historical lines.

And it also helps the Axis late game slowing down the Allies so they don't do the same thing. With the air unit positive balancing effect and the rail repair rate I think it should work.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
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Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to generalfdog)

Post #: 40

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 10:01:52 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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There are two other important modifications that will improve defense imo.

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 41

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 10:11:17 PM

Nirosi

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
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Do we know when that next update will be live?

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 42

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 10:17:29 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
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No idea, Alvaro is the boss here.

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Post #: 43

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 11:28:03 PM

Nirosi

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Joined: 9/17/2017
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quote:

There are two other important modifications that will improve defense imo.

Tease!

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 44

RE: Game Balance - 11/19/2021 11:32:03 PM

AlvaroSousa

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As soon as Ncc looks at all the improvements to make sure I didn't make mistakes ;)

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Post #: 45

RE: Game Balance - 11/20/2021 9:26:04 AM

ncc1701e

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

quote:

There are two other important modifications that will improve defense imo.

Tease!

You can see one of them if you are looking careful in the screenshots of this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5103613

Hint, this is about entrenchement levels.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 46

RE: Game Balance - 11/20/2021 2:09:42 PM

Nirosi

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
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I'll try: You can now keep your entrenchment level if doing a swap?

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 47

RE: Game Balance - 11/20/2021 2:11:31 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

I'll try: You can now keep your entrenchment level if doing a swap?

Yes it was one of those things I just didn't think of when I made the game.

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- WarPlan
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Designer Strategic Command
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(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 48

RE: Game Balance - 11/20/2021 3:12:43 PM

Nirosi

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Thanks! That is cool. We can can rotate units at the front without been paralyzed by the dilemma if it is worth it or not to lose the entrenchment

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 49

RE: Game Balance - 11/20/2021 4:13:51 PM

srd5090

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/2/2017
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Alvaro thank you for continuing to update and support the games you have made.

WP2 is going to be great. Speaking of, is it planned to be global or just ETO?

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 50

RE: Game Balance - 11/21/2021 12:37:25 AM

AlvaroSousa

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Joined: 7/29/2013
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global

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(in reply to srd5090)

Post #: 51

RE: Game Balance - 11/21/2021 11:12:14 AM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

The best game is one that ends on the last turn of the game.

By definition, all games end after the last turn.
You're speaking of victory ;)

The best game is one that both opponents believe is unbalanced in favor of the side their opponent is playing.

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 52

RE: Game Balance - 11/21/2021 3:24:12 PM

AlvaroSousa

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That too.

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Post #: 53

RE: Game Balance - 11/23/2021 1:20:01 AM

srd5090

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Is there an ETA on the next patch?

I am waiting to start a campaign until it hits Steam...

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 54

RE: Game Balance - 11/23/2021 1:47:28 AM

generalfdog

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So wont the air force changes help the Germans in early Barbarossa or really until 43? actually the big concern may be Russia in 42 once the rails are all repaired?

(in reply to srd5090)

Post #: 55

RE: Game Balance - 11/23/2021 11:43:07 AM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
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quote:

ORIGINAL: generalfdog

So wont the air force changes help the Germans in early Barbarossa or really until 43? actually the big concern may be Russia in 42 once the rails are all repaired?

You are right. I am not yet there in my hotseat testing game. But 1942, once the rail are repaired, is also scaring me for the Russian. I wonder if Russian should not have a production boost in December 1941 so that they throw armies after armies in front of the Germans in May 1942.

I have not heard of the feedback from the other beta testers.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 56

RE: Game Balance - 11/23/2021 1:39:24 PM

AlvaroSousa

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The Russians have a lot of reserve units.

Well the patch was going to be sent Monday till someone found some more bugs. Imagine an arrow point to the above post and you will know who it was.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
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Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 57

RE: Game Balance - 11/23/2021 6:40:48 PM

ncc1701e

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_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 58

RE: Game Balance - 11/24/2021 6:20:23 PM

michaelCLARADY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

No one buys air because armor/mech is way more effective.

As Russia, disbanding air to buy armor/mech is not even a bad idea. Russia can advance without air cover at all since enemy air does not impact their logistics meaning their supply network.

But isn't breaking a front and smashing into the green fields beyond what a mech force does?

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 59

RE: Game Balance - 11/24/2021 6:29:32 PM

michaelCLARADY

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From what I have seen the Allies have a distinct 1940 advantage in that the Brits can still put far more forces into France than their real 1940 ability to mobilize allows AND no account is taken of the fragile morale of the French Army in 1940 and the feckless defeatist mindset of their government As to the USSR- allow their armor/mech the same op points as the Germans from the very beginning.

(in reply to michaelCLARADY)

Post #: 60