loki100
Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sauron_II
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In this case, the resource production data is important as that is the subject of concern here.
Additionally, WiTE2 uses a host of production variables that change over time. Right now, it is hard to know or determine if those are being applied correctly.
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partial response as this question runs across this thread, this question was missed and its actually important:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Balou
Is fuel the only commodity we will never be short of ? What about tanks, aircraft, armaments, supplies etc ?
First, and we may disagree with this, you may disagree with this, so all I'm doing is setting out how (I think) it works.
So - none of the WiTx games (can't speak for WiTP) are industrial simulations. This came up starkest in WiTW where the VP system is used as a proxy for bombing damage against the actual German economy
Some production is limited, but mostly out of our control. The obvious bits here are the chassis production and conversion to named elements. There are caps due to factory size, possibly modified by damage and/or outright loss. B
Some production is generic (off arms pts etc) but the actual amount of element x produced is capped. So the Soviet shortage of heavier artillery till late 44 is hardwired, its near impossible for the axis player to take out enough Soviet production capacity to push production under these caps and of course the Soviets can't solve it by taking axis production.
In effect, for good or ill, both sides are straight-jacketed into something akin to their historical war time production systems.
Finally some production is generic and not capped. This is mostly the sort of stuff you find in an infantry element, where of course raw manpower is more important than producing say a light MG or rifle.
So - one side of the production system is important, but in reality you get what you are given (or to use my local vernacular 'you'll have had your supper')
Turn now to fuel/oil/supply etc. I think I've shown quite clearly that the axis player doesn't pay a price for not taking the Caucasus in the post earlier in this thread. Yes more or less factories might produce but I'm not sure if its of any importance. Again, I'm trying to capture how the system works, at the core the game system does not work at the level of shortages in production. You can spend an age in the details of the logistics report, its interesting but in the end (I think) its mostly irrelevant.
What the game system relies on is constraints in delivery - so the whole process of rail yards to push freight, rail lines to carry it, depots to store and process and units to actually employ it. Every step has constraints and, to a variable extent, you have tools to address those constraints.
A quick check supports this. There is a mass of freight in the NSS that you can't access because you can't bring to the front line. In the Axis AAR I mentioned, I spent the first year studying how much actually left the NSS each turn. I stopped recording this once the at start malus on transport lifted (and that my experience was that come 1942+ there was little change in the volumes, especially as I completed all the secondary rail lines):
Now having done that, I'm pretty sure it tells us very little. What is sent from the NSS is a small fraction of what is in the NSS, or, at least in my view, the production system really is relatively unimportant.
apols, this is a long post but trying to reduce the number of hares skittering around as people look for information that is either not there or not important (in the game as designed).
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Printable Version
RE: Axis fuel usage and production. - 
- as I have been known to argue elsewhere, there is in the end no substitute for actually playing the game, especially ones that are going badly so we get real hard evidence.
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