Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44

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Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/3/2021 4:03:22 PM

Firewire9452

Posts: 26
Joined: 4/1/2021
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In my last game, I feel like I overbuilt the Soviet army (too many riflecorps, perhaps too few tank or mechanized corps) and might have compromised my offensive potential by having too many units on the map seeking supply. Do people have any advice on how large of an on-map Soviet army I should build for the spring 43 and spring 44 offensives? In particular, I�d like to hear thoughts about the total number of mobile formations and how folks allocate them between tank/mech corps and the total number of infantry and how folks allocate them between divisions vs corps.

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RE: Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/3/2021 8:46:07 PM

ShaggyHiK

Posts: 166
Joined: 10/10/2021
Status: offline

6 tank armies, 2-3 tank corps, 1-2 mech corps.

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RE: Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/4/2021 8:31:08 AM

Bertram

Posts: 110
Joined: 9/11/2003
From: Netherlands
Status: offline

I am in the same situation. It is the end of summer '43, the Germans are stopped at Rostov (which I will probably loose soon) and Stalingrad, though they took Leningrad and are at the outskirts of Moscow. I have stopped building infantry units, even though I have plenty of manpower in reserve. My rail network is complete "yellow" with tinges of orange... It looks like my current line will hold, with the arrival of the mud. I dont dare to send in new units, as the current units have trouble getting their reinforcements form the rear.

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RE: Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/4/2021 10:27:12 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

some big chunky ideas.

Have a look at the pre-release Soviet AAR I wrote, that may give you a feel for the numbers I was able to supply and use at key stages.

Big things:

a) you have, and I really stress this, have to understand the logistics system or the Soviets will strangle themselves. Depot location, priorities, rear area depot build ups, super-depots, thinking of force tailoring and activity on certain sectors are all critical
b) divide up the map. Assuming you hold Moscow as your NSS then there are 3 'zones'
b1) Minsk-Kiev
b2) 1941 borders
b3) the Reich (& Hungary as an even more tricky subset)
c) for b1, you shouldn't have any fundamental concerns; over b2, you should be able to project around 7m men and a mechanized army; for b3, feasibly 6m + mechanised assets

Hungary will test your understanding of the logistics tools, so take a leaf out of the historical Soviet operational tempo. Build up, hit hard, run west, stop.

You'll notice I am not saying much about the army composition. In terms of mechanization, I'd keep a close eye on your truck pool, no point in low MP mech/tank corps simply due to a truck lack. Its not till the 1944 LL multipliers can you build up in this regard. Another issue is the lack of heavy artillery will push you towards rocket formations ... and, they want trucks.

So my broad advice - really understand how to manipulate the logistics system. Keep a close eye on the truck/unit and truck/reserve ratios, use those to structure how fast you mechanise.

Think broadly of the Road to Berlin in 3 stages and tailor the logistics demand of your army to that geographical framing.

edit - don't underestimate Cavalry Corps, they have a better hitting power than the Tank Corps till 1944 and remain very useful after that. They have enough mobility to be able to exploit a gap torn by the Rifle Corps and are pretty useful as a defensive shield to hold a break out

edit 2 - when you start an offensive don't mess about saving formations 'for later' a stack of Rifle Corps can go through most things, try to open up a 3 hex gap and, if you can, win each breakthrough battle at 10-1 or better. That removes the combat delay and any ZoC interdiction on the centre hex, then you can exploit. For every set piece Soviet offensive, its T1 that matters, everything else is then a matter of exploiting that situation as much as possible.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 12/4/2021 10:32:34 AM >

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RE: Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/4/2021 12:07:55 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

What I'd also add to the complexity mix is appropriate SU's as well.....our game is in early 1943 and I'm in one of those expansion phases right now. It's so 'easy' and tempting to want to build everything....you see all those goodies on the build screen....it has to be balanced and a gradual process though. You start to receive more trucks in 1943 (4,500 a week IIRC) BUT the advent of Mechanised Corps (in particular) eat trucks for breakfast BUT they're also one of your best formations to use.

Planning SU's is also important. You'll have all these nice and shiny Corps to use but don't underestimate the truck usage needed for assigning the mass of SU's you can as well. Mechanised/Motorised Bde's (for example) are an important addition to Tank Corps since they lack the infantry strength. If you build 20-40 of those to attach that's also more trucks to factor in for example.

Heavy Rocket units are a good use. You receive many more of the 300mm Kat's and they don't use Trucks like the smaller Light Rocket units.

So many things to factor in with truck use other than the obvious ones - Tank and Mech Corps - you have the Mech SU's, Rocket units whilst also factoring in the more of these you have the less trucks you have for supply when your growing army needs more of it.

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RE: Soviet Army Size Target For 43/44 - 12/4/2021 2:56:35 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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Not strictly related to this particular topic but it's on my mind and don't know where else to put it.....The game with Loki was my 1st GC41 experience of WITE2 post release and I've learnt a shed load of things. I'll probably do 50-100 things differently next time with the benefit of hindsight, knowing what's to come, knowing what options exist for the Soviet and the Axis etc etc....the 1 thing I'll mention here (linked to 43+ Soviet Union planning) is think ahead with the foresight of what unit types will be available when and in what quantity. For example, Rifle Bde's are extremely useful as SU's attached to Rifle Corps (as are Ski Bde's too). The capacity limit for them decreases overtime so make sure, if you can (each game will obviously be different so manpower and AP availability dependent), you maximise the creation of as many as you can/want before 1943 since their limit begins to decrease....same as some Artillery Rgt's (be wary here though due to artillery availability), Cavalry units etc etc....

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