A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG

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A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 12:22:35 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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Greetings,

This is an AAR of a Grand Campaign '41, with no early end - that is to start roughly one year later.
In my other / previous game, no one got to '42 either by me yielding, or my opponent doing so - or rarer cases discreetly disappearing without a word.

I and MSAG started this with the 'Buff Artillery' Patch, and updated to 'AFV' losses Patch; and I decided to make a picture of the situation before to move on with the latest Beta Patch of now, the 'Nerf Artillery' patch.

Said that I wish there was the possibility to take an offline save of a Turn without the possibility of moving units around or do anything besides studying the map and accessing the menus - it would do good to take 'photographs' for an AAR.

For what concerns 'House Rules' I play with a 'No T1 pocket opening' - due to how binary the game is with 'surrender' and 'rout' business. It's too big of a game changer. - Ground Attack on Units was forbidden til the air patch and now we're experimenting with it (more so the Soviets than the Germans).

Frontline at T53 - 21 Jun 1942:

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 12:30:42 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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Numbers for the number-crunchers.

For the sake of the weather pattern we had a prolonged winter, where snows were present through March and up to half April - which allowed the Wermacht hop to the offensive and make some minor ground gains, catching Soviets lightly off guard here and there. Then from half April to end of May we had mud dominating the scenes.

The Russians reached 5 Millions on map men by the end of the Mud Time. But fights afterwards have been very vicious. Germany are roughly the same as now between losses and replacements.

The Air War has been virtually non existant in '41 after the initial tests of night bombing and whatnot. German planes are simply useless unless they are Fighters OR Transport planes. I've tinkered and tried in single player with various bombloads to see how they affect the combat and results are non satisfactory to warrant supply and fuel usage pretty much so they can just be kept around for ... err ... some emergency or where one needs that extra handful of disrupted folks?

The VVS operates vehemently in '42 despite severe losses. In virtue of their numbers alone I feel if they spot where are the fighter bases, the Jagdwaffe will cease to operationally exist - if it was not for MSAG that is good sport and a fair player and has agreed not to produce spam of air missions.

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/4/2021 12:37:07 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 1:39:15 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

Narrative of Words

This will be a summary of the Barbarossa and subsequent Winter Offensive and will be vague as I go by memory - which could be faulty in minor things so gonna keep generic!

I am still in a phase where I play roughly with historical assignments, at least at the start. So no PzG2 going South - but I think it has lent a single MOTDivision to PzG1.

Barbarossa:

AGS advanced well, at T5 caught Kiev that was left with a single division in and it was dislodged on the go, whilst Odessa required a heft amount of guns and pionere battallions, the 11th Army had to storm it! The Naval Interdiction was not isolating Odessa (I believe now it was due to the truck depot bug, as all the time I interdicted the sea zone, there was enough air interdiction but then these numbers faded without enemy action at all... and Odessa was never isolated at the start of my subqsequent turn - I am not sure anyhow).

AGN proceeded with more roadbumps due to the terrain and I believe the first flow of Soviet forces in the sector. Talinn was fiercely defended (and had same issue as Odessa, cannot isolate it and had to storm it with an infantry corp with all the adequate artilleries and engineers for). AGN got shored easily against Russian defenders, well entrenched and dug. The Narva River was reached and there a line was drawn. Toward Leningrad the closemost point reached was Luga, evacuated before Winter for a straight line between the lakes (A keen eye can see still some of the fortified zones remaining on the map being the 2nd line there).

AGC seized Smolens by T5 or so - thanks to the new combat model I feel because frankly before the 'Arty Buff patch' Smolensk was regularly in Soviet hands by T8 or T10. I myself playing Soviets for the first time vs another human in another game, was yawning and keeping the Germans at Smolensk height there by T8. By litterally never had played Soviets before vs the AI either. (That player has disappeared, but it was before the Arty Buff patch. I can feel the frustration of that guy too as I've been there myself).

MSAG played his Soviets with a good balance of retreating and fighting, with realization that his troops must bleed to gain time - that meant the Soviets suffered high losses and still are well capable of fighting.

AGS swept in Crimean with the 11th Army and Romanians, seizing Sebastopol with 9 divisions of the 11th Army assaulting it at once. The Russians discreetly vacated the peninsula and dug in at the other end of Kerch strait. Romanians did the same at the Axis end - where by now there is a Tier 4 fort. I assume enough to impede penetrations there.

AGS reached Rostov and in the last turns of autumn with the snows freezing the ground pointes were launched to disrupt the Soviet railroads and alienate their supply bases for the winter - in some odd belief it would factually disrupt their supply. (Most confident it did not)

AGC: Boguchar was reached, Voronhez seized and held in September or October. Liptesk factories reached for just one turn, before the Russians took it back, in November. Orel seemed firmly in Axis hand with a buffer. Kaluga was seized at the last breath of November or Early December by Model-led infantry corp. The 3rd Panzer was pushing toward Moscow and reached 7 or 8 hexes from it when the mud of October arrived and enough Soviets were poured in to put to a dead stop the advance toward the Russian capital. By when the snows replaced the mud the Soviets were far too entrenched for meaningful progress! I remember I was counting hexes from Moscow it was 5 and then everything froze proper! The German position was precarious as there was a penetration along the main road that was easily severable with a mighty counterattack so the Germans have flown backward like water and settled a line at Mozhaisk or Borodino - do not remember which of the two!

AGC to AGN: The 'Winter Line' for the Germans went westward to Gycheva and on. There was the pre-Winter goat to reach the small lakes there and establish a shorter line but MSAG held the territory dear and close and that intended line was reached only in the late February. From the pair of lakes the goal was to get up north to Staraya Russa,.which ended up bloated due to the final pointe of PzG4 that secured Demyansk and the contested the Valdai Hills. - The grand goal was to sever the big rail to Leningrad but that was never reached.

Winter came and caught the Germans in two totally different situations.

First I wish to mention 'Winter Preparations' as they're relevant to the Germans and I am still a newb there.

Air Transport: That is one of the keys. You will need tons of air supply, and airbases around the map to bring spot-on your supplies. Prepare accordingly. Mobilitate your air transport groups from anywhere needed and set them to the East Front. You must play with Theather Box enabled. And frankly I suggest any Axis player to do otherwise. Or you will receive Air Transports when Demyansk was historically encircled and there was a need of them. BUT what if your forces get encircled beforehand? You'll be screwed. Transfers are based on historical transfers, dictated by historical situations. -- It helped greatly that the VVS was not present at all - or maybe unable to intercept which would not surprise me.

Overstocked Depots in the background: Keep to 4 some of the big depots like Minsk, Kiev, heck even small ones. To have Sonda with 9999k Freight in it as winter hits means your Narva line will be well supplied and you have nothing to worry for it. To have Velike Luki with almost 20000 Freight it means your local sector just need that depot to go down to Priority3 and you can have that Freight flow onward toward Peno or so.

Situation Type 1:

From North to Orel the Germans litterally had the rail depots at equine trot distance. At times even right on the spot. At situations it was even possible to keep localized offensive where supply was good. And where not having that, there was air supply for patching the situation (ie. Demyansk - even if it was not encircled). In general the line here has held with only a few situations of crisis that were managed. The worst situation was the insertion of Soviets between Borodino and Kaluga but it was stemmed out. Model Infantry Corp, heavily equipped with SU and supplied via air in Kaluga retained 'deliberate attack' power through the winter remaining a firm bastion despite the potential risk of encirclment. The other situation of risk was an insertion that seemed aimed between Kozelsk to Orel, or a direct ramming at Kozeslsk-Beley sector, but Heinrici corps held the grounds. -- The whole Leningrad portion remained stable and fixed.

Situation Type 2:

The brutality of the Soviet Winter came where the Axis forces were -not- adequately supplied. Foolish OKH (me!) decided to keep Voronez AND to overextend in the south with mobile forces to cut the westward railroad going to the Caucasus AND push the Don-to-Stalingrad one backward.

Romanians and Germany infantries were merrily digging in at the Don and the Voronhez sector, the 1st Panzergruppe moving ahead, and portion of the 2nd Panzergruppe linking Orel to Voronhez intermixed with infantry divisions.

The Russians taught me a lesson fast and hard. The 1st Panzergruppe had to be rescued by the infantries as it fought its way back struggling not to get encircled by rapidly moving cavalries! Graciously here no big unit was lost but aplenty of divisions were rammed, smashed and reduced to not being able to fight proper. 5 panzer divisions of the PzG1 had to be sent to the Reserve, all having less than 50 panzers each.

The 'sothern' shell of the Don river defence was left unmolested, but the Russians must have repaired their railway from Stalingrad and kept pounding and hammering the Germans til fresh forces arrived from France to stem the relentless assault.

Voronhez crisis was -worse-. The Russian cavalries were moving faster than Axis motorized assets. A whole division was evacuated from Voronhez via air. Whisked away. One or two infantry divisions were not just routed and pounded, but encircled and surrendered, and same goes for the 4th Panzer Division. The Russians were just playing bowling with the German troops there. The 2nd Panzergruppe surviving assets pooled around Orel that had a railroad (by now admittedly also Kharkov and Kursk were connected but Kursk got rail cut out by the soviet advances north and south of it, as I did not link it up from the west but north-south). The Hungarian mobile corp got so savagely pounded that as well needed to go back to the Reserve in order to lick wounds. The tragedy came to an end when the 11th Army reached the combat operations zone from Krimea and hotpatched the situation bringing 'fresh' forces (admittedly they were massivelty fatigued as they marched but it was a bunch of divisions).

Air Supply helped out as well as remote but full depots like Chernigov allowed some Ju52 transportations to Kurks, Orel and the like.

Winter's End.

Once the supply situations improved due to rails being converted (I deemed a problem the original base and have 3 out of 5 Railroad Work units converting rails at Poland border to broaden the base of 'shipping' to the East) the Germans, refreshed by replacements coming and bolstered by fresh troops started to 'deliberate' attack the Soviets still lingering closeby.

AGN mostly left untouched explored and probed the Russian line - as predicted left not too mighty due to offensive operations elsewhere.

In general the Russians withdrew - even before fighting - as the winter season came to an end and the snows frozen the grounds. The Axis managed to pounce onward anywhere they were well supplied. Rzhev - still in Soviet hand from the start of the game - fell in this process.

The Russian army started to get back to be pounded just out of deliberate attacks (as other guys lamented). But truthfully as it goes, deliberate frontal attacks are the only way to play with Germans, unless you want to devote a full panzer army to pocket -1- or -2- hexes every 2-3 turns. (And I fear with the latest patch the Germans got to step ground 0 but I'll check that out soonish!)

Here I feel MSAG did some potential mistake which I ... will underline in the next reply.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 1:51:01 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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The 'German Attrition War' of Artilleries.

This is the process that needs repeated over time and will net results.

MSAG has the healthy principle of trading blood for time.
On the other hand blood can call for more blood. To hold roughly the same line and have the Germans advance of a few hexes, the Soviets stick there. But not all Soviet formations are strong enough.

As well visible that Guard Corp is superior to anything Germans have individually. (On the paper-numbers at least) And rightfully protects the corner of the line that is attackable by 3 hexes. But there is plenty of 1 attack X defense factor troops all along the rest of the line. Batter these, hard. With deliberate attacks. Even if you advance little. Because these 1-23 divisions are pure illusion of being 26. They're 0.6 and 0.7 CV if they were to attack. It means a mix of low morale, readyness, equipment / TOE%. With a convinced attacks they'll get enough pounding to trigger a rout (maybe a retreat but I think a rout) with subsequent losses. - On the other hand the 7-7, that one is a line division, fresh and rested and well equipped. It is in a fort and in light woods so -one- of the two values must be wrong.

Note that there is a depot - served by railroad - at the left bottom corner. German troops are well supplied there and combat ready. Now imagine this type of situation, through the turn, from there to roughly Kaluga at least.

The Germans can pick their fights on the weaker spots and attrition the Russians in that way. - And alas that is the way to play. Assuming the latest patch has not removed that way.

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/4/2021 1:58:06 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 2:00:19 PM

AlbertN

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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How NOT to Play: Encircle the Russians

Now, some folks say 'you gotta encircle the Russians, that's how Germans play'.

This is show number one. There were 3 nice Russian infantry divisions. Marked as 11-11 on the map! (Yes that's a bloated number for the Russian divisions. I expect them loaded with SUs attached).

I tried to encircle them. BUT I got mauled back AND counter encircled.

What you see is the 'post situation' after the Germans had to forfeit pointes elsewhere to get there and help the Panzerkorp (inclusive of two SS divisions) suddenly encircled. In the process a single Panzer division, holding the northern reaches of the pocket, got mauled (now only 3 strong - that's my turn so I know the value precisely)

The Russians simply did their damage, stalled German advance, erased morale from the mobile units and now hopped backward to their own safe locations, with their precious divisions integer!

Now I'll show you worse and further on why Germans cannot play cocky! - BUT with utmost chances the issue will be the same later on for anyone that goes on the offensive, moves a lot to seep through ZoCs and the like, only to get potentially hammered backward later. (But I suspect Germans won't have much pushing power later on in the war)

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/4/2021 2:06:00 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 2:18:11 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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How NOT to play, Part II

Despite what other players profess, about Soviets not being playable, and despite having got a healthy (historical?) amount of losses with the 'Buff Arty' patch, the Soviets in June '42 are more than capable of pooling forces and launching counteroffensives in grand style.

Here the Germans were not really encircling anything but were trying to get a southern push toward Moscow by the whole 2nd Panzergruppo backed up by elements of the 16th Army (Pink guys, yes they have changed zone!) whilst 4th Army are the blue guys.

The Soviets swept away 5 Panzer divisions in one go that now can be seen well mauled and pretty much with lousy CV around Tula. (Seized 2 turns ago). The same two Guard Cavalry corps plowed through like breeze through German quality formations (I assume both groups belong to Assault Armies) and Panzers seem quite brittle still.

Ontop of that German divisions got encircled!

Opinion 1: Some may feel I am biased, but I think a stack of 3 Panzer divisions that are combat ready should be massive trouble even in '45 for the Russians to retreat, not to mention rout. Now before fanboys jump on me - in a mundane '45 situation Germans should not have the luxury to stack up 3 panzer divisions in general, and supposedly they're half strenght or the like so that is a what if situation.

Opinion 2: That is something that goes both ways but I deeply preferred the WITE1 approach to morale and movement - and I believe Admin Movement should not be viable when too close to the enemy. Given I'll benefit of that as well, that infantry from the south is to march by that armoured corp and deliberate attack it, I think... but in general Admin Movement paired up with 'getting to the enemy' allows grand sweeps and maneuvers, and to attack easily and cheaply even with units that are miles and miles away. That, teaming up with the fact to move offroad has the same cost no matter the troop quality makes some operational ordeals ... iffy. - I firmly believe that Admin Movement should not be enabled if within 3 hexes of the enemy or so; and adding it as one of the T1 special rules for Germans, that ignore that penalty. That way hit and run attacks or sweeping maneuvers are not that doable anymore, and movements points are more relevant if at the frontline. Then by all means, if someone's marching in the rearlines, they should be perfectly able to use Admin Movement all the way down from point A to point B.

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/4/2021 2:28:15 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 2:28:04 PM

AlbertN

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From: Italy
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Air Supply Interception

Putting this as there may be a problem. BUT I am to underline as well it's fine and fair as I surely evacuated earlier, during Winter, a full division (that is inclusive of artilleries too ... which I believe due to game mechanics count as 'freight' and cargo capacity) slipped away via air from Voronhez proper.

It may have affected Air Supply during Winter - I know I've been intercepted a few times though when I was daringly supply an airfield on the frontline or at best 1 hex behind my lines (Which I feel frankly the sweet spot to be at).

On the other hand here the LW is not intercepting at all something that is supplying an encircled City, with adequately supplied fighters 2 hexes away - and with the Soviet airforce having to fly over hexes in my control so enough forewarning. -- I assume this can be rather problematic IF also Axis Airforce could simply slip into Stalingrad pocket and facing only AA fire without air interception.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 2:52:42 PM

AlbertN

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From: Italy
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AGN Sketch

This is where til now the 'Attrition War' worked well, and where some localized encirclments took place, but always of 1-2 hexes and no more.

Frankly I expected MSAG to break free the northern on as he has fresh troops there and the single Panzer division is in thick woods that devalues AFVs and extract his 3 divisions that way.

By sheer numbers Orianenbaum also seems understaffed (3:24) and that to me means that despite the 5 strong fort it can be taken, and easily so for all I remember. Maybe I'll be proved wrong!

The plan here is to liquidate the two pockets and attrition on the weak formations to drain Soviet manpower. - Will see how the latest patch works here, in the 'safest' of the environments as Axis troops are well supplied, strong and in terrain too.

It is better visible here the remnants of the Winter Line that may be kept there for a future situational need (albeit prolly issueing some LW Feld division to keep up the forts or so).

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 3:37:59 PM

AlbertN

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From: Italy
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As predicted Orianenbaum fell - but only the Panzer Division could enter in. - Air supply has still to come there but it will to bolster it some to withstand a potential counterattack (Albeit now that the mighty fort is gone, it's not that a relevant hex I feel).

On the other hand I felt the difference between the patches by A LOT. Even the weakest of the Russian divisions suffered less losses in withstanding deliberate attacks, and a Russian Corp teaming with a Russian division withstood the brunt of 5 reinforced German IDs in rough terrain. (Given, Vatutin is here) Germans benefitted of almost 2:1 on the paper advantage of infantry and guns and got stalled.

Then the 'big Guard corp' protecting the corner instead was shoved away, but that one was led by some leader I do not know... But at this stage of the war I do not expect Russians to have bad leaders around. From Average to Excellent ones. For that one I decided to use the Luftwaffe to see how it works. I am not sure if that made the difference - and it was only 3 divisions attacking that unit, that was without fortifications too.

Maybe number crunchers could have answers, I go by vibe and feel for the most but later I will try to compare some the two fights in my own speculations.

The whole line of '1' strong divisions got pushed back as predicted but with 1/3 of the losses they'd have suffered the previous patch roughly. Which worries me much for the balance of the game - if that was the trend from start of '41 Barbarossa, Germans are doomed!

PzG4 liquidated the encircled corps and encircled 2 more infantry corps, but that is the last Panzergruppe operational on the map. The first one had half of it encircled two turns ago as depicted above; and the second got mauled the last turn as you saw too. The third has little of 'panzer' and is mostly an Infantry Army HQ with some mobile forces and its admin bonus.

And now I've to go and sort errands, time to save the turn and leave the green boys of the 9th army at the bottom right corner still to move.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 5:33:44 PM

Sammy5IsAlive

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Great stuff Albert! Super interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops.

My 2c on the following...

quote:

Opinion 1: Some may feel I am biased, but I think a stack of 3 Panzer divisions that are combat ready should be massive trouble even in '45 for the Russians to retreat, not to mention rout. Now before fanboys jump on me - in a mundane '45 situation Germans should not have the luxury to stack up 3 panzer divisions in general, and supposedly they're half strenght or the like so that is a what if situation.

Opinion 2: That is something that goes both ways but I deeply preferred the WITE1 approach to morale and movement - and I believe Admin Movement should not be viable when too close to the enemy. Given I'll benefit of that as well, that infantry from the south is to march by that armoured corp and deliberate attack it, I think... but in general Admin Movement paired up with 'getting to the enemy' allows grand sweeps and maneuvers, and to attack easily and cheaply even with units that are miles and miles away. That, teaming up with the fact to move offroad has the same cost no matter the troop quality makes some operational ordeals ... iffy. - I firmly believe that Admin Movement should not be enabled if within 3 hexes of the enemy or so; and adding it as one of the T1 special rules for Germans, that ignore that penalty. That way hit and run attacks or sweeping maneuvers are not that doable anymore, and movements points are more relevant if at the frontline. Then by all means, if someone's marching in the rearlines, they should be perfectly able to use Admin Movement all the way down from point A to point B.

With that first battle you screenshotted - if I see 400+ German AFVs and a total defensive CV of c.12 then something has definitely gone wrong operationally. For me a 4CV panzer division is not 'combat ready'. It may be that they started the turn isolated or alternatively you might have overstretched yourself and they are really low on CPPs and/or heavily fatigued. I think that compared to WITE1 the Axis player has to be much more imaginative and careful in the way that they use their Panzer units which I personally think it a good thing.

On Admin movement in this specific situation - it doesn't really make much difference. You are looking at a situation where there is no bad weather and where there are few terrain elements that might slow movement down. In WITE1 the Soviet units would be paying 1MP/hex to move in friendly territory just as they are doing in your situation.

On Admin movement more generally, and the game balance as a whole - my personal view is that it is a good thing if the Soviet player is able to make 'grand' manoeuvres and counter-offensives in 41/42 (and also the Axis player in 43-early 45). My personal view is that a game where the front line steadily plods towards Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad through 41-42 and then steadily plods back to Berlin for the rest of the game, with no prospect of significant counter attacks by either defending side is probably not going to be all that fun to play.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 7:05:51 PM

AlbertN

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From: Italy
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Got back home from errands and will reply on the fly.

Yes the Panzer Divisions did their attacks in my own turn, thus had an amount of fatigue and spent CCPs in the process. They were definitely not isolated.
But the point is that one has to attack, or sit and watch. To gain CCPs is not immediate, and they're spent quickly and rapidly - especially for the side with less troops (Axis) as you need to open your way up.
I admit I am not fond of regiments offensively at this stage as they're pretty weak.

It's very simple. Either Germans stand still, do deliberate attack to what they've in front and maybe advance 1 hex - and still are well fatigued and worn, or do nothing.

Do a sweepimg maneuver, move zoc from zoc, etc with your mobile troops, and see otherwise which is their remaining combat value afterwards. It will be very, very low. Alternatively you can waste half to one month to build up CCP, not using or moving pratically said unit, for a small burst of action. Which will lead you nowhere because ... the game is not won in 1 turn.

< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/4/2021 8:08:41 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 7:17:54 PM

AlbertN

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Moscow Sector - for the show the 9th Army, 3rd Panzer Army, 4th Army and the link up to the delicate situation of the 2nd Panzer Army that you know the fate of!

I'll start stabilizing (or trying to) the situation of the 2nd Panzer Army and see the 'middle' later in case I need to shift something from the 3rd Panzer to the Tula sector.

Moscow appears so close yet I feel it is so far at the same time!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 7:35:30 PM

AlbertN

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From: Italy
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Air Efficiency Comparison

Here you have 119 I-16 fighter bomber planes to the left, and a bunch of Luftwaffe bombers, inclusive of 60 Stukas performing ground support.

The main difference I assume may be Light Woods vs Heavy Woods for performance. But supposedly German planes are all good quality pilots. (There are no other Russian losses out of air under the mortars barring some support elements damaged or disrupted)

Dare say the I-16 Fighter Bombers were way more lethal than Stukas and twin engines medium bombers! And targetting more palatable stuff (real guns for the most).

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 7:55:30 PM

AlbertN

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The situation was 'patched'.

I could have encircled some Armoured Corps, but as already shown and underlined, the Soviets would just have arrived in their turn with their fresh and rested forces, and hammered away the exhausted and worn German ones that just finished to maneuver.

Already now the Germans must stack 3 divisions to have on paper the same combat value of one of these Cavalry corps. That having a rail arriving in Kaluga which is 10 hexes to the west!

The Luftwaffe was used again - for the sake of testing out things (We have this approach on the airforce) and the Armoured Corps flak revealed quite deadly for the LW (10% casualty ratio). I heeded to the suggestion of another player here on the forums, to use the Stukas and co. to help fast attacks. I am not sure the result was ... as expected. These tank corps on the paper had 2 and 3 CV and should have kind of melted away when jumped on by 3 German divisions (one of them a 'fresh' infantry one, as per not involved in heavy fighting from previous turn)

What I've to evaluate is IF to withdraw from the northmost hex. And to the side the Model Infantry Corp failed their first deliberate attack since ... eons ...
Soviet Corps are appearing everywhere to stiffen the defences.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 8:23:08 PM

AlbertN

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@ Sammy Is Alive

This is to show better you how it works.

Germans did grandtotal of 2 attacks to penetrate here, which would have cut from 100 to 50 any CCP. And these were against beefed up stacks of Soviets. Battles were won but exhausted the Germans.

A fresh unit was sent from where there is the 19th Pz (Visible in screenshot of the front) to the front-hex gained, without any combat. But as it moves through Zoc and Zoc and Zoc, its combat value just by marching dropped from 12ish to 5ish. Thus the front stack has a total of 15 nominal CV, 2 units did 1 combat and advanced in, and 1 unit did 0 combat. All these units started pratically well rested. Railway depots are at Mozaysk and Germolino (2 hexes south west of the blue infantry corp of Model that can be seen in the south of the image).

So it is pretty much advance that way, or not advance at all. And the numbers the Soviets can pull - at least nominal numbers - are here in plain sight.

The only 'good stack' Germany still has, has not moved or done anything (the 26-39 - signaling that there is still the 19th Pz division there, kept in reserve maybe?), and that is why it is 26 strong. Move it, and that number will drop sensibly.

The Luftwaffe and the VVS have flown a lot of missions there. The Luftwaffe fighters do their dirty job but gets attrited. The LW bomber keep being pretty useless and the Soviet Flak is mighty efficient. (But I forgot to raise altitude too of my bombers...)

The general feeling that I've is that by '42 the Russians are pretty mighty already!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 11:55:15 PM

AlbertN

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Souther Reaches:

I admit I definitely understimated the Soviets. By a far shot though.

I am well aware that I tried to attack on all the front like the '41, and I expected the Soviets to be able to blunt one of the directives. Instead it is a slog to Leningrad (Expected due to terrain), Moscow pinchers are being stalled and rebuked (And they started 1-2 turns late in the push in the hope to trick MSAG to divert forces elsewhere).

The first push started south though. With a grandtotal of 4 armies (but 2 Romanians out of the 4) it was the first attack to start - also because 'weather'. It turned nice weather there before anywhere else on the map.

The idea was to see which reaches we'd get, and to lift a helluva of dust. And lure Soviet attention.

The Soviet attention came and in large numbers, which immediately made me happy. Til I've not realized this turn that they've massive numbers anywhere on the map pretty much!

Here I've done my moves, made minor counterattacks as the Soviets achieved their result, had my motorized forces morale plummet by 4-6 points just by being isolated for one turn, and danced away leaving screens of well rested and probably CCP full infantry divisions that have still 5-6 CV in open plains. German divisions there just by marching and attacking are already down to 3-4 CV each.

Similar attempt was made to the oil rigs, but once reached Krasnodar, after a measly initial success that surrounded two Soviet division, the Russians stabilized the front and launched cavalries to threaten a cut. - The positive notion is that ships go through Kerch Strait even if that is not fully controlled (I feel this should be changed - a side to use the strait to perform sea supply should control both ends of it). And that Mariupol-Eysk or Minskaya is a very short route that is fruitful with Me323 taking the heavy lifting. (Something I planned originally but ... sent them to fuel Tula situation instead after recent debacle).

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/4/2021 11:58:32 PM

AlbertN

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Last but not least - air losses. This turn has been intense for the air war on both ends.
But pratically none of us has flown a plane (besides transports) across winter... that was amany turns of stocking up planes and pilots.

The Russian airforce strikes at guns also - while I've not seen the Axis planes have similar targetting priority. So I am quite glad to have erased from the sky many planes.
The real question is, how many more the Soviets have at hand? I fear too many!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 11:35:47 AM

AlbertN

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T54 - End of June '42

I've been very lucky to have found an opponent churning turns fast. And I believe he lives the gaming experience as a game and not as some micro-bachelor study, which I suspect it helps keeping the game experience more healthy and relatively less time consuming too!

This is the 'north situation' as I got the turn. The Russians have performed a tactical retreat to what I expect them to be more solid and mostly shorter lines. With Leningrad being the anchoring point to one end.

Germans got a FBD unit in zone now to help have supply right on the front.

The 2 Infantry Corps surrounded the previous turn have remained surrounded and isolated.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 11:42:19 AM

AlbertN

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T54 - End of June 42

Guard Infantry Corps have shanked German infantry divisions that were trying to embrace them. Quite successfully so. I knew it was a risky maneuver at least for one of the division that was infiltrating between the two Guard Corps.

I took some losses but at least the enemy repositioned and has one of said Corps in clear now, supposedly ripe for retribution.

What I cannot explain myself is the retreat from the southern zone of Moscow. I can only assume now that the Panzerwaffe has been locally evirated, it is just safer to use Moscow as mighty bastion upfront and thus have more free units to protect the sides of it.

Also Germans will get to a minor riverline, mostly in Clear hexes that can be counterattacked easily as well.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 11:49:46 AM

AlbertN

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T54 - End of June 42

The initial goal to secure Voronhez seems at hand BUT Voronhez keeps getting supplies like no tomorrow.

Air Superiority mission on the specific hex of Voronhez has not sorted any effect, the German fighters based litterally 2 hexes away from Voronhez itself do not fly to intercept anything.
Ontop of that I lost a Leader in one of the HQs keeping the LW-Flak battallions to flak the Soviet Air Transports. I assume just by being closeby to the enemy or so.

At this stage I may as well storm Voronhez as it seems it is perpetually supplied via air and the nominal combat value of its garrison is not dropping. Maybe I should bomb it some for once... Things to ponder.

I've to check in single player if there are juicy Russian factories as potential targets closeby that were not historically evacuated to go for. Or otherwise I believe I've at least half infantry army to use to other targets and gain a defensive posture there if all I've ahead are tiny towns.

EDIT: Worrysome news, just realized Voronhez does not even count as isolated. Now I am not sure how much supplies have got into Voronhez, but for all I remember in previous circumstances to air supply lighten the issue but does not vanquish it. Here it seems the troops in Voronhez are not isolated at all - and that is going on since turns.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 11:56:30 AM

AlbertN

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T54 - End of June 42

The Soviets retreated here as well - rightfully so. They hammered me, had their 'victory' and now pulled back to safer spots.

A single turn of isolated units smashes their morale pretty much and thus their fighting capability drops sensibly.
A go for Stalingrad is probably out of questions and the oil seems non relevant going by other threads.

But at the same time if I stop any operation here and retreat at the Rostov-Don line... the Soviets will just pour all their excess forces elsewhere.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 2:42:11 PM

Stamb

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Great AAR. I also noticed that sometimes my fighters do not intercept enemy transport planes. Maybe they are out of available miles to fly?

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 3:19:56 PM

AlbertN

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@Stamb - When you assign Air Superiority directive the planes should account for that.

I had a quick exchange of mail with MSAG (who is a very responsive player!) and he told me he already experienced that as he tried to put AS up in previous situations but it seems the AS function does not criss-cross at all with the Air Supply missions.

I also asked him about the status of Voronhez and he told me the location has 25k freight stocked, and he is sending over 500 a turn (I'd merrily trade the Ju52 for these Li2 as they seem to have 3-4 times the cargo capacity of Ju52 at this stage!)

Now - did the AGN part around Leningrad and there is both decent and bad play on my end here.

The good play is that I managed to get to interrupt another railroad going to Leningrad. Since apparently this is a game about Moving Freight from NSS to where it is needed, would a single rail path to the north suffice to supply all the stuff that is in Leningrad adequately?
I assume not. But somehow I feel the Soviets here have no supply problems in general exactly as they can ship in and out troops from reserves. - Til will tell.
That part of the front was lightly manned by the Soviets though, they had units but they were weak and scattered quickly despite being in thick woods.

My bad play? A panzer division too bold. I have grown glutton and wanted to try to cut some enemy big formations. (It drops morale for them too like a hammer just by being isolated). But alas the Panzer division moved in, unable to move out and ... dang 2 units present instead of the 1 I thought. I expect that Panzer division to be hammered savagely and hard by the Soviets their turn. Since there is no way a Panzer Division alone will withstand attacks from 3-4 hexsides all the SU's of it have been withdrawn with post haste!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 4:08:36 PM

AlbertN

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With utmost chances I ought to read some on how to disable a NSS or reduce it.

Nonetheless! As good news Kalinin was seized. I saw a potential opportunity (a gamble so to say) with 2 Rifle Divisions and the fortified zone. But nominal value of 95ish!

I mobilized the big guns, as per Siege Artillery, attached SU's in abundance for what was possible - including Italian Assault Engineer that seem to be able to be deployed up there as well (and that funnily enough had a Hit per Element superior to German Pionere squads). The Luftwaffe was called in cause as well even if I noticed after previous turn bloodshed Bomber Morale dropped sensibly.

On the other hand the 12th Infantry Guard Corp gave a bloodied nose to my German panzers trying to straighten the line in front of Moscow.

To the south as the Soviets retreated and as there has been a grand effort and exhaustion here - I will let my own forces to rest (besides Panzers are kind of sapped in combat power) and potentially shuffle some to be ready to face a counterattack.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/5/2021 5:00:28 PM

AlbertN

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Voronhez seems a too though nut to crack. Yet.
After Kalinin lesson (which was quite a bloodshed for the Germans too) I believe I'll need to wait to reposition the siege guns for Voronhez and work on more AA to be attached to the divisions. Right now the AA at hand is ... Italian! (A bunch arrived for the Italian corps. I swear there is more Italian AA battallions here than in Italy).

But I assume the non 'East' theather units are simply non polished. Pretty confident many Italian units are absent simply because not being relevant for the game exactly as Croats and Bulgarians are not in the Balkan box.

In the while instead of storming now Voronhez I can set the 11th Army to rest and build CCPs. To have 200+ CV at nominal value ... I wonder how many divisions are there. But I think MSAG also put a HQ in the City-Fort this time.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/6/2021 7:34:07 AM

AlbertN

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T55 - Southern Dances

The relatively weak probes of the Axis armoured forces are rebuked with smart use of Cavalry Divisions.

These Cavalry divisions are pratically non existant combat forces with minimal CV (under 1) but are perfect to harrass enemy advancing columns, and are Morale killers.
To start a turn isolated it makes the morale plummel by a lot and it takes several fights to bring it back up.

And Germany cannot stop by and encircle at this stage in general.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/6/2021 7:38:17 AM

AlbertN

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T55 - What it takes to Encircle

Ontop of what you see there was also the LAHSS division in the 'empty' hex, that was relocated to the West this very turn by scripted transfer.

I am quite confident that MSAG could have potentially broken that encirclment at own cost of exposing his own troops. It was a 7-7 Russian division the one encircled, and my SS divisions after having moved had 5 or 6 CV themselves so German mighty elite being inferior than your generic Russian division that stays put and is well rested.

I merely believe MSAG evaluated favorable to lose 1 division and keep the bulk of his forces ready and rested for my next moves in the sector (Which is not far from the further south cavalry dance of the previous post).

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/6/2021 7:44:03 AM

AlbertN

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T55 - Voronhez

I am litterally experimenting here. I evaluated to have the HQs around but not adjacent (a good general died just by being adjacent to Voronhez with the HQ... without being attacked or else) but the Flak does not count for the combat it seems so I must go back to hug the City for massive flak fire.

The HQs there are loaded with flak but it does not seem to have fired a single shot; and neither the Italian AA assets that have been attached to the divisions around Voronhez.

I'll keep bombing Voronhez with planes in moderate amount of visits as I and MSAG agreed not to spam a target with Ground Attack (Unit).

The Soviet shyed an attack on the Hungarian Armoured Divisions but they're beefed up by German SUs inflating their combat value.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/6/2021 7:58:20 AM

AlbertN

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T55 - Leningrad sector

Paid the price for my foolish advance with the Panzer Division, but I was expecting a more massive pounding.
A good half of these panzers lots at Czech panzers that I noticed being very prone to get destroyed in grapples!

On the other hand the Soviets came to hug the 'snake' of mobile forces that pointed to the north, bringing also a heft amount of Corps sized units. The divisions are of the '1' strong type but I assume they're there to keep me busy in the plan of a larger severing of the snake tail!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/6/2021 8:06:00 AM

AlbertN

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Leader Stuff - Confusing for me...

Now I've lost another (average) leader ... the HQ was not adjacent to the enemy (it is visible above east of Voronhez).
The HQ was not bombed.

Partisan interdiction not present in the hex ...

I am not sure what is killing German leaders ... earlier the HQ were hugging Voronhez for flak.

The replacing of the 3rd Panzer Army HQ is another thing I am not getting. Of X victories they got the 'defeat' by the hand of a guard corp and suddenly there must be some either Ratio or Treshold of Wins / Losses that mandates replacing. I had Guderian replaced earlier during Soviet Winter '41 but that was due to the 2nd Panzer Army getting mauled and suffering defeat after defeat.

The 3rd Panzer Army just seized Kalinin and is in general on the advance. Probably someone in a bunker wanted Moscow already and was not content with the speed of the advance.