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RE: Making the last Beta Official

 
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RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 6:19:59 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Let me throw something out...

I agree with several others above that an updated version of the manual would be very beneficial to new (and current) players.

Previous discussions of the creation of an updated manual have presumed that the end product would be a new static PDF version of the manual. The production of such a PDF document, however, is a mistake.

An updated version of the manual should be an HTML document, readable in any browser. The virtue of an HTML document is that unlike with a PDF: (a) little layout is needed and (b) an updated manual can be produced piecemeal instead of being fully completed before it sees the light of day.

Below is a screenshot of one small part of an HTML document I just created that updates the current manual with information about running the game with modern hardware. You will recognize the text as coming from the "What's New" document which appears in the main game directory. What you see below is the only change I made to the original manual and is only a proof of concept.

The process involved in creating the HTML document was simple: I used Adobe Acrobat Pro to export the PDF of the current manual to HTML. Then, I added the text at the bottom using Dreamweaver (an HTML editor). This approach, however, is imperfect. First, the HTML created by Adobe Acrobat is horribly verbose, which matters for speed and ease of editing of the document. Second, the quality of the images created by this process is often quite low. Third, Acrobat is unable to strip out the background on the pages and, so, adds hundreds of image files of the background throughout the HTML document.

A better pathway to an HTML update of the manual: Matrix (actually, its designer) opens the original design document for the print/PDF manual, removes the background from the pages, removes the page number from the pages, and then generates HTML documents for each chapter.

These files could be uploaded to the server Matrix uses, and someone could be given access to the appropriate directories so that a team of people could make the many small and big changes the manual needs. (I'm not sure that anyone would want to host the new manual because of potential bandwidth costs.) The manual would not be a static PDF document but a "living manual" that slowly integrates updated information. So, instead of waiting for a mythical complete rewrite of the whole manual, players would have access to a (slowly) updated manual starting in a few weeks.

If InDesign was used to create the print/PDF manuals and if the full package of files (including images) were sent to me, I could create the HTML versions of the chapters for other people to edit. (I just opened up a 2003 InDesign document with the current version of InDesign, so I'm pretty sure a 2009 InDesign document can be opened up.)

If Matrix if fine with the above process, I imagine that at least three people would have to agree to work on the living manual to make it become a reality.

(A separate issue is what use could be made of material appearing on the forum, say by Alfred. Certainly anything appearing on the forum could be rewritten, but I don't know anything about matters related to copyright claims on material appearing on Internet forums.)




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 61
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 6:22:44 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pz501

This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but who is Alfred? Is there any particular thread where I can read posts from him?

Everyone says he has the most knowledge when it comes to the workings of the game.

I've been away from WITP-AE for a long while, and I'm trying to catch up, so I'll appreciate any help.

Also, some posts say Alfred is "gone". Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Again my apology for sounding uneducated, and I hope you'll forgive my asking about something that appears to be common community knowledge.


If you search for answers to any difficult topic or questions about the way AE operates, you will likely find an attack or insult from Alfred. He is a very knowledgeable poster with an ego/attitude problem who ran the forum like his own private club who consistently ran newbies and old vets away from the forum. He was banned and refuses to follow forum rules and thus the ban remains in effect until he agrees to do so. But with his ego I highly doubt he will agree to that. It's a shame because his input would be valuable to this project.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pz501

Thanks guys for the information regarding Alfred.

The responses were to say the least, educational, especially the picture of Michael Caine.

I'll leave everyone alone now, since I don't want to intrude any further into what appears to be a semi-private forum. Please forgive my ignorance. It won't happen again.


Please stay. A semi-private forum is what we are trying to avoid now. We are trying to become a positive welcoming community again.

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 12/6/2021 7:04:47 AM >


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Post #: 62
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 6:27:59 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?

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Post #: 63
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 6:35:47 PM   
Rogue188

 

Posts: 30
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Thank you for the answers RangerJoe, but I have not had much luck searching the forums. At least when I use the search bar. I get lots of answers that have nothing to do with my question. Overall, my point is that the information I pointed out should be obvious. Why should I have to search thousands of threads in the forums to understand how big AF my planes can land on?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 64
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 7:46:49 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

Thank you for the answers RangerJoe, but I have not had much luck searching the forums. At least when I use the search bar. I get lots of answers that have nothing to do with my question. Overall, my point is that the information I pointed out should be obvious. Why should I have to search thousands of threads in the forums to understand how big AF my planes can land on?


Actually the forum should be your "search of last resort". I just opened up the pdf manual, typed in "airfield size", and within seconds it took me to section 9.4 which would answer most of your questions. "Rearmament" was even faster, taking me to the Rearmament table at 20.1.2.2, which, if nothing else, shows that port size is only one factor when it comes to loading of ammo.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but many folks do not search the manual, when the answers can usually be found there, and pretty quickly, too. Now if we're talking about paging through a paper manual, then yes, kill.me.now. but the pdf version is easy to use.

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Post #: 65
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 7:53:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

Thank you for the answers RangerJoe, but I have not had much luck searching the forums. At least when I use the search bar. I get lots of answers that have nothing to do with my question. Overall, my point is that the information I pointed out should be obvious. Why should I have to search thousands of threads in the forums to understand how big AF my planes can land on?


As long as it is size 1 for wheeled aircraft they can land. Flying boats without wheels (some do have them, they are amphibious like the PBY-5A) and float planes generally do better landing on water.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Rogue188)
Post #: 66
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 7:58:20 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

Thank you for the answers RangerJoe, but I have not had much luck searching the forums. At least when I use the search bar. I get lots of answers that have nothing to do with my question. Overall, my point is that the information I pointed out should be obvious. Why should I have to search thousands of threads in the forums to understand how big AF my planes can land on?


Actually the forum should be your "search of last resort". I just opened up the pdf manual, typed in "airfield size", and within seconds it took me to section 9.4 which would answer most of your questions. "Rearmament" was even faster, taking me to the Rearmament table at 20.1.2.2, which, if nothing else, shows that port size is only one factor when it comes to loading of ammo.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but many folks do not search the manual, when the answers can usually be found there, and pretty quickly, too. Now if we're talking about paging through a paper manual, then yes, kill.me.now. but the pdf version is easy to use.


Thank you Kull.

For searching the forums:

searching the posts on this forum? Erroneous retrieval...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2672439

For many other answers:

FAQ / Info for Newb's

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

This last one is stickied on top of The War Room subset of threads . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 67
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 8:07:47 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
I also pledge for an updated manual this is probably the single most meaningful point that would make the game more accessible to newcomers and also make it easier for veterans to look stuff up.

1) The least I can say is that I play this game nearly daily for 1,5 years now and have not encountered anything that would be game breaking or I would consider problematic.
This is not to be said that there aren't bugs that need to be fixed, just that after all that time, I didn't notice any.

2) I do not think that there are any mods/maps/arts that should be part of the standard game, the mods for this game are wonderful, but the game is probably best learned in the vanilla version and players can install mods them self if they are interested in them.
That said it would be nice to integrate the functionality of the seabee tool into the launcher.
Also please keep the possibility to install multiple instances of the game, as this is in my experience the safest way to divide multiple ongoing games from each other.

4) I actually play the game on 1600*900 even though I have a 1920*1080 Monitor. The reason for that is that the UI elements in the game don't scale to large resolutions, so windows are smaller with bigger resolutions and it is not possible to resize them. In my opinion the combat replay especially is much more enjoyable to watch if the air combat window occupies 50% of the screen instead of something like 20% with 1920*1080, also the readability of the text is better. So I think using a smaller resolution with the game is actually more beneficial than using a large one.
My switches are: -f -px1600 -py900 -deepColor -skipVideo -archive -altFont

(in reply to Rogue188)
Post #: 68
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 8:14:20 PM   
Macquarrie1999


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/29/2021
From: California
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The only mods that should be added are various art mods (not for the map though).


The one thing I really wish this game would have is the ability to zoom out the map a bit. I want the ability to see more of the map at the same time. Also, the -altFont switch is basically a necessity.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 69
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 10:40:33 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?



Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.



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Post #: 70
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 11:20:07 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
Glitches still in the game:

If you attempt to use the mouse scroll wheel to scroll the combat reports instead of grabbing the scroll bar with the mouse a bleed through of text lists occurs which once it clears wipes out the Done button making the use of the Escape key the only way to close the combat report:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 71
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/5/2021 11:25:33 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
Glitches still in the game:

1. Cascading Selection: Sometimes selecting a TF or Air unit results in the selection cascading two units down the list. The base interface shows the yellow selection outline around the chosen unit, but the displayed unit is two units down the list from the chosen unit.

2. Non Display of Ground Units at bottom of Base Interface: Sometimes if selecting the Airbase or TF icon at a Base hex the Land Unit icons fail to display at the bottom of the interface. To get them to display you have to select the Ground Unit icon in the Base hex on the map.

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Post #: 72
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 12:58:30 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Well, it seems that I caused some confusion with my initial post and that things went off-track again as well. Let me clarify a few things:

1. A re-master in this context just means that we re-build the store installer to the latest version and include as default any command line switches that are helpful for standard modern operating systems. It does not mean re-doing the game. I realized after reading a few of the replies that re-master may have been understood to mean some kind of re-make, but it means an installer rebuild as I intended it.

2. We would not be looking to make a new big update. This would just be wrapping up the last public beta to resolve any critical issues that could be easily resolved before making it official. This would be done by Michael, who made the public beta updates. It doesn't really make sense to leave it in a public beta state in a somewhat buried forum post when we could make it more easily available, especially for new players.

3. This is intended to just be a final tying up of loose ends with the public beta as well as making the initial install more friendly for new players and modern systems. Updating the Members Club with the most popular mods will also help with that so that they're not as hard to find.

4. There is no intention at this point to re-do the manual, though if the community updated it in some reasonable way, I'd be happy to add that to the Members Club or even add it to the installer.

5. Alfred is welcome back to the forum, as I've mentioned before. There's only one condition which applies to every poster on this forum. You have to agree to follow the forum rules - that's all that has been asked of him. He has not agreed to follow the forum rules, therefore the ban remains in place.

Please keep this thread on the original topic. I'll be reviewing the feedback on bugs and mods in detail later.

Regards,

- Erik




< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 12/6/2021 1:09:25 AM >


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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 73
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 1:00:12 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
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Great news, Erik. I think sorting out a few bugs would be nice. The port(0) lack of naval support functionality and the AKE bugs come to mind. Also, the pilot limit and other database limits (such as number of devices) should be increased if possible.

Folding in the functionality of Tracker and Seabee would be helpful. Making it easy for new players to get started will help.

I also think it would be helpful to add some DaBabes and most or all of Any Mac's scenarios, plus the extended map.

Cheers,
CB

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Post #: 74
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 1:18:29 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Glitches still in the game:

If you attempt to use the mouse scroll wheel to scroll the combat reports instead of grabbing the scroll bar with the mouse a bleed through of text lists occurs which once it clears wipes out the Done button making the use of the Escape key the only way to close the combat report:


You might want to check your settings, as that doesn't happen on mine. It sounds like either a resource issue or something akin to the Win10 bleedthrough issue when running full screen. Your other problems sound similar (and I've never seen those either).

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Post #: 75
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 1:21:31 AM   
Macquarrie1999


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/29/2021
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Glitches still in the game:

1. Cascading Selection: Sometimes selecting a TF or Air unit results in the selection cascading two units down the list. The base interface shows the yellow selection outline around the chosen unit, but the displayed unit is two units down the list from the chosen unit.

2. Non Display of Ground Units at bottom of Base Interface: Sometimes if selecting the Airbase or TF icon at a Base hex the Land Unit icons fail to display at the bottom of the interface. To get them to display you have to select the Ground Unit icon in the Base hex on the map.


1. Is such an annoying bug. I hope it can be fixed.

I have had what you describe with ground units happen to industry as well.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 76
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 1:28:34 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panjack
A better pathway to an HTML update of the manual: Matrix (actually, its designer) opens the original design document for the print/PDF manual, removes the background from the pages, removes the page number from the pages, and then generates HTML documents for each chapter.

These files could be uploaded to the server Matrix uses, and someone could be given access to the appropriate directories so that a team of people could make the many small and big changes the manual needs. (I'm not sure that anyone would want to host the new manual because of potential bandwidth costs.) The manual would not be a static PDF document but a "living manual" that slowly integrates updated information. So, instead of waiting for a mythical complete rewrite of the whole manual, players would have access to a (slowly) updated manual starting in a few weeks.

If InDesign was used to create the print/PDF manuals and if the full package of files (including images) were sent to me, I could create the HTML versions of the chapters for other people to edit. (I just opened up a 2003 InDesign document with the current version of InDesign, so I'm pretty sure a 2009 InDesign document can be opened up.)

If Matrix if fine with the above process, I imagine that at least three people would have to agree to work on the living manual to make it become a reality.


We did use InDesign, but frankly I'm not sure if the files are still available. I'll have a look around.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 77
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 3:38:55 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This would qualify as 'gamebreaking bug' to me. It's not huge because you have to embark on this path and you can avoid triggering it, but it seems like something that should be an easy fix in the code.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 78
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 4:11:42 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This would qualify as 'gamebreaking bug' to me. It's not huge because you have to embark on this path and you can avoid triggering it, but it seems like something that should be an easy fix in the code.


Maybe there should be a different thread with the "bugs" and/or "features" so players can agree to avoid them since it does not appear that there will be any fixes for those.

It seems to me that what is going to be attempted would be a program to install the game with the proper switches for new machines. As I pointed out before, SeaBee would be a good choice. Then the most popular mods and other items to be added so they are easily installed.

So no new updated manual although that would be nice and I would pay for that.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 79
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 5:56:50 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?



Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.




This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122

quote:

9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3847055&mpage=3&key=�


< Message edited by Tanaka -- 12/6/2021 5:58:50 AM >


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Post #: 80
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 9:41:55 AM   
Jellicoe


Posts: 157
Joined: 9/26/2012
From: Kent, UK
Status: offline
Dear Erik

Thank you for doing this. Much appreciated.

I would very much appreciate Tracker being folded in - it would make playing Japan that much more accessible
Andy Mac's additional AI scripts
The Dababes scenarios - for the improved AA and for the ship database alone (how can people live without access to 15inch gun monitors?)
The extended map

As for glitches the one that irritates me the most is one that Hans Bolter has already referenced. When you select a task force in a hex with multiple taskforces it will automatically take you to the last one on the list until you come out and click again to get the correct taskforce. A real pain when you are prepping one of the big allied late war amphibious armadas


(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 81
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 10:00:14 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?



Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.




This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122

quote:

9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3847055&mpage=3&key=�




First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3847055&mpage=2&key=%26%2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.







< Message edited by Ian R -- 12/6/2021 10:05:45 AM >


_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 82
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 10:18:40 AM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Tanaka,

I don’t see this as a bug.

I think the game models the Air Transport Command very well.
Some of it of course is in the game like the Burma “Hump” but much of
it is abstracted and beneath the surface.

The way the Air Transport Command moved pilots is modeled well.

A single pilot would often have to wait, sometimes days, until a scheduled
transport mission was ready to go to or near his destination. If it was near
his destination he might have to wait again for another scheduled flight.

If there was a group of pilots moving there would be enough of a demand to
schedule a separate flight for them. If an air group had a need for multiple pilots
that would create enough of a demand to move them quickly.

You should read up on the service:
https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/air-transport-command-and-airlines-during-world-war-ii-1

This game is very complex.


(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 83
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 10:49:43 AM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
I think what you really need to do is re-master the games editor.
The editor right now is very “clunky”.

If you re-designed the editor it could be a plug-in and function as the front end for the game.

Michaelm has already shown the way with how the Beta functions.
Right now the Beta is functioning as a stand alone plug-in that modifies
the existing game.

The editor could be re-designed to be a lot more user friendly with more functions.

If the editor had the ability to examine the individual players computer system
and configure the games parameters based on that it would be a big step forward.
You punch a button and the computer tells you what the optimum configuration is
for your computer and display and could then apply it. A player would still retain the
Ability to modify that.

With internet technology there is the ability in a re-designed editor to go out
over the internet and grab the mods and art a player wants and import them in and
configure them all through the editor.

That way you would not add substantially to the games initial download or disk.

The mods and art could reside at one place on a Matrix server or multiple servers
and could be updated there by the mod makers. The player could then get the most
up to date mod or art with a simple download without having to go to Google or
Dropbox or wherever and try to figure out how get it to work.

This model works fairly well on a platform like Steam.

Then, clean up the games front end and update the auto-run to link the player to the
re-designed editor where he can configure and mod the game.

That way new players and players who are not technology able would have a front end way
to enter the game and older players like me could still enter the game from the back end if we desired.

In Game:

Of course clean up the few bugs.

Also, it would be really helpful if the game had it’s own built in magnifier for full screen
that could be toggled on and off in game to zoom in and out on the map and screens.

For the manual, I think the best option is not to try and rewrite the manual but to
highlight it and annotate it with fly outs. Manual mistakes could be corrected this
way without having to rework the entire manual.

This ability already exists somewhat in Adobe Acrobat Reader.
I’ve done some of this to my own manual
(As Shown Below)

Comments can be added to the PDF but they have a limited length in Acrobat.
Forum links could be added which would expand that ability and allow the player
to go directly to the correct forum post without doing a search for it.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Trugrit -- 12/6/2021 10:51:33 AM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 84
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 11:59:44 AM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline
As someone who just bought the game on sale (as will many I assume), I had to go through all the hoops to get the game running well, including the beta, command line switches etc. found in this post, which was very helpful for me. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4916799

The only mod I'm running is the Kamikaze Extended map, which I find incredibly helpful as well. It would be a great time for Matrix to update the installer to beta and/or add this map to make it much easier on those of us just buying the game!

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 85
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 1:19:36 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline
I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 86
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 3:06:14 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
RE
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
For the manual, I think the best option is not to try and rewrite the manual but to
highlight it and annotate it with fly outs. Manual mistakes could be corrected this
way without having to rework the entire manual.

This ability already exists somewhat in Adobe Acrobat Reader.
I’ve done some of this to my own manual
(As Shown Below)

Comments can be added to the PDF but they have a limited length in Acrobat.
Forum links could be added which would expand that ability and allow the player
to go directly to the correct forum post without doing a search for it.



I've played with adding "sticky notes" (and links to internet material) to the manual, which is one reasonable way to add information. One downside, though, is that I don't think you can search for text that appears in sticky notes, which limits its usefulness.

However, the work involved in adding sticky notes (and Internet links) is much less than any other way of updating the manual. And, an imperfect, but quick, way of updating the manual is better than a perfect rewrite (that takes years to appear).

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 87
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 4:13:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
This project will not make a new manual That would be an entirely different project for a new manual.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 12/6/2021 6:31:24 PM >


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 88
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 6:39:44 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Although it is discussed in the Bug Compilation thread I linked earlier, the "TRACOM Bug" is very serious and should be looked at. TRACOM is supposed to be a pilot training acceleration mechanism, but unfortunately it can do much more. Several players have reported that when TRACOM contains more than 100 pilots, it also increases the national experience number. When you look at the screenshot below, keep in mind that the IJN pilot national experience number (the highest level of experience a new pilot can graduate with) is supposed to be capped at 34 in 1943. Instead, the bug produces results like this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
... but a player who makes a serious effort to populate TRACOM (with say 100 or more pilots) is going to see some very noticeable improvements.


Oh yeah, improvements you might see. just maybe not what you could've expected

Both are stock 1 scenarios







This reminds me. Isn't it a bug that when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant? Aren't they supposed to work the same?



Your comment contains a sweeping generalisation which is incorrect.

If you add a group of pilots from the reserve list, filtered by highest skill, then some are immediately available, while others may take days or a week to get to the air group.




This is what I was referring to:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122

quote:

9. 3 available ways of pulling a pilot into an airgroup from the reserve pool all produce different results with respect to arrival delay and XP loss. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3847055&mpage=3&key=�




First:

You are citing a 2015 thread - at a time when the game was still being patched - the topic of which is, initially, Sangeli's pilot training assist tool, leading into a discussion of individual pilot experience losses resulting from moving pilots from one aircraft class to a different one.

Ironically, given a few hours ago on this thread you were, yet again, personally attacking and criticising him in his absence, the key post is Alfred's post # 53: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3847055&mpage=2&key=%26%2365533%3B. Had you actually read the thread GetAssista linked, you would have seen this further link: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3706882&mpage=1&key=� provided by Alfred. See particularly koniu's post #3.

You might have also read WITPQS' post #69, wherein he points out that all the assertions of a bug are incorrect, and why they are. Further, you might also have seen Kull's post #75. Perhaps you could do a search of the patch read-me notes and see of MichaelM subsequently made any change to the code with respect thereto; it was more than a year before the final patch.


Secondly:

Your post under reply referred only to delay times of arrival of pilots called into a group. It sweepingly asserted that "when you individually add a pilot to a group it takes weeks for them to arrive but when you add groups of pilots to a group it is instant".

Your sweeping generalisation is wrong, and the thread you linked provides zero evidence to support it. If you manually pull a group of 10 or 20 or 25 pilots from the reserve pool into an airgroup, you will see that some come with a delay quite often.








No I was just referring to the 2020 thread by GetAssist: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122

Thanks for the update. Glad to know the "Get Veteran" vs "Get Pilots" is working correctly. I had read in other threads and posts people mentioning this as an issue. Sometimes in the bajillion WITPAE threads you read you recall reading people mentioning different potential bugs and this is one I remembered hearing about several times so just thought I would bring it up it for discussion. Just discussing not interested in a fight with you analyzing every single post and date. I'm no expert on the game and have never claimed to be.

Not personally attacking Alfred. Just stating the facts of the question asked. The evidence and reputation on the forum speaks for itself. I appreciate his contributions and would be happy to have him around if he followed forum rules. But we all know that is not his nature and he has no reputation for doing so.

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 12/6/2021 6:43:21 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 89
RE: Making the last Beta Official - 12/6/2021 8:23:55 PM   
Macquarrie1999


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/29/2021
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

I would also add I was having "bleed through" of my Windows desktop while playing full screen, but upon searching found out that it was the "-dd_sw" command giving me bleed through in FullScreen, but apparently the command can be helpful in Windowed Mode. Once I deleted that command, no bleed through.


Unfortunately if I turn this off the lag becomes unbearable, so I just have to put up with the bleed through.

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 90
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