Perfect map scale for operational wargame

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Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/6/2021 8:19:39 PM

ncc1701e

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What is the best scale from your point of view for an operational wargame?

. 1 km per hex
. 2.5 km per hex
. 5 km per hex
. 7.5 km per hex
. 10 km per hex
. bigger than this!

Time period: WW2 but does it matter?

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/6/2021 8:57:12 PM

RyanCrierie

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Depends on what scale it's at. Different types of units have different frontages. You want to be able to have SOME scope for manouver at all levels; rather than everything being so dense you can't move anything.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 12:04:30 AM

ernieschwitz

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I think Decisive Campaigns shows the different scales that operational wargames can have. DC: Barbarossa Operational, I would venture, since there is no production though there is some strategy play. It is 30 km per Hex. On the flip side you have DC: Ardennes, just released, that has 1 km hexes. Both are at the very edge of the spectrum.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 6:42:15 AM

ncc1701e

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You are right, it depends on the size of the units on the map. Maybe the answer is there is no scale far more popular than others.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 9:09:37 AM

RangerJoe

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There is nothing wrong with light years either . . .

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 12:27:39 PM

76mm

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I prefer 2.5-5 km per hex; one of the key aspects of an "operational" level game for me is that there is no ranged fire (other than artillery), so 1 km per hex is too small IMHO. Of course the size of the units is also relevant; I prefer battalions/regiments for unit size, with specialist detachments down to company size.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 2:31:48 PM

pzgndr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
You are right, it depends on the size of the units on the map. Maybe the answer is there is no scale far more popular than others.

And that's the key. See Operational Level of War. The 'definition' really does not specify what the maneuver unit size is or must be. Certainly squad/platoon/company units are at the tactical level. Corps and Armies and Army Groups are more appropriate for the strategic and grand strategic level. So probably brigade/regiment units are best for the operational level, and perhaps battalion or division units may be better for certain operational level campaigns; i.e., divisions for larger campaigns and battalions for smaller campaigns. It depends on the scale and scope of the game/scenario design. I would also add that the wargame should be manageable with the numbers of units in the game being in the hundreds. To me, personally, games with thousands of units are not easily managed while games with only tens of units can sometimes be interesting but usually lack sufficient depth of gameplay for replayability. Just a thought.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 5:24:23 PM

ncc1701e

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Yes, thanks for the link.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/7/2021 10:07:31 PM

timmyab

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I like battalion scale with 1 mile hexes. Battalions should have the option to break into companies if neccessary but game mechanics should slightly discourage it. Battalion level gives a few more tactical options without getting bogged down with too much LOS and ranged fire stuff.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/8/2021 12:49:02 AM

Curtis Lemay

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I think my Kaiserschlacht 1918 scenario is a good example for this topic, since I did it at two different scales:

https://crossrl1.wixsite.com/my-toaw-site/kaiserschlacht-1918

The full-sized version was at regimental units and 2.5 km hexes. The mini version was at division units and 5 km hexes. Both work about the same. So...which is better is just a matter of preference.

I've also done scenarios at 10km/hex and 50km/hex. All work very well.

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/8/2021 3:43:10 AM

operating

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Hex scale does not matter to me as long as the counters in the hex are legible and don't need a magnifying glass to see what symbols are included, hex info, ect. ect..

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/8/2021 3:32:15 PM

ernieschwitz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Hex scale does not matter to me as long as the counters in the hex are legible and don't need a magnifying glass to see what symbols are included, hex info, ect. ect..

Having a hex scale is not what defines grand strategy, strategy, operational or tactical games. It is how those games are played. Of course it is nice to be able to see the units, symbols etc. But that goes for any game, I bet. :)

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/8/2021 3:33:11 PM

ernieschwitz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I like battalion scale with 1 mile hexes. Battalions should have the option to break into companies if neccessary but game mechanics should slightly discourage it. Battalion level gives a few more tactical options without getting bogged down with too much LOS and ranged fire stuff.

To me breaking down into companies, already would make this a tactical game. Just saying...

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/8/2021 6:35:34 PM

timmyab

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Just as an option, not to be encouraged. So the battalion is stronger when combined but has flexibilty if needed.
I also like regimental too. Again with the option to split into battalions if necessary. Battalion level support units also.

< Message edited by timmyab -- 12/8/2021 6:37:53 PM >

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/15/2021 7:12:12 PM

Freyr Oakenshield

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I think that "perfect" doesn't exist but "fairly good" is IMO what Wargame Design Studio (John Tiller Games) have been doing in their operational Panzer Campaigns -- roughly speaking - 1 km hexes and 2 hour turns, units normally at the company and battalion level.

https://wargameds.com/collections/panzer-campaigns

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 12/15/2021 7:13:15 PM >

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/15/2021 9:39:24 PM

ernieschwitz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I think that "perfect" doesn't exist but "fairly good" is IMO what Wargame Design Studio (John Tiller Games) have been doing in their operational Panzer Campaigns -- roughly speaking - 1 km hexes and 2 hour turns, units normally at the company and battalion level.

https://wargameds.com/collections/panzer-campaigns

But.. is that operational level? It maybe a perfect level for tactical level games, however, but operational?

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/16/2021 10:26:16 AM

Freyr Oakenshield

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I think that "perfect" doesn't exist but "fairly good" is IMO what Wargame Design Studio (John Tiller Games) have been doing in their operational Panzer Campaigns -- roughly speaking - 1 km hexes and 2 hour turns, units normally at the company and battalion level.

https://wargameds.com/collections/panzer-campaigns

But.. is that operational level? It maybe a perfect level for tactical level games, however, but operational?

Tactical games are single tanks, squads and single soldiers...

edit: maybe also platoons

For example, Steel Panthers is a tactical game.

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 12/16/2021 10:31:25 AM >

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RE: Perfect map scale for operational wargame - 12/16/2021 12:42:28 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I think that "perfect" doesn't exist but "fairly good" is IMO what Wargame Design Studio (John Tiller Games) have been doing in their operational Panzer Campaigns -- roughly speaking - 1 km hexes and 2 hour turns, units normally at the company and battalion level.

https://wargameds.com/collections/panzer-campaigns

But.. is that operational level? It maybe a perfect level for tactical level games, however, but operational?

Right on the edge. In a general way tactical games would typically have line of sight considerations for most if not all ranged equipment and small units, platoon and lower, individual vehicles and crew served equipment. Operational might have line of sight for long range heavy weapons but company sized units and larger with no individual vehicles and crew served equipment. 1 km can cover both but not especially in a good way.

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