RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A)

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RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 12:25:03 AM

RangerJoe

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CVEs in a TF can help to protect the base while not suffering any penalties for being in a base hex.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 31

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 12:27:52 AM

RangerJoe

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You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 32

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 5:52:39 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Be sure to understand the implications of this in a game with no strategic bombing HR.

As the Allies, in such a game, you can be sure that the first move following the capture of Palembang would be to mobilize every bomber within range to bomb the oil from under Japan's nose.

While a capture of Palembang before Jan '42 will put the Allies on the back foot in this regard, that cuts both ways as it's unlikely Japan will have substantial assets to commit to the defence...

Plan wisely!

To be honest I was thinking to use a whole Sentai (with Nate until upgrade) and all AA units on Samah, but your comment make me think could be not enough...

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 33

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 5:57:59 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

Uhm...again I thought that just setting several ships with home port Fusan and stockpiling resources would have been enough.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 34

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 8:40:29 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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Producing stuff!

I have to say that compililing this list has been a very time consuming task!

Disclaimer: my objective is not looking for a quick victory (and I don't think to be good at it anyway) but for the long journey, I know that most players research the most important aircrafts with 10+ 30x factories but I don't want to speed up so much in my game, I am happy with just few months ahead.
Some R&D factories have been placed for production and not for pure reasearch.
Finally not all my aircrafts will be updated with the last available model, I will keep at least a single air group with almost all of the outdated planes (fighters even more).

ARMY

Early Fighter: Oscar Ki-43-Ic (100/month)
Early-Mid-Late Fighter: Oscar Ki-43-IIa/Ki-43-IV (2x30)
Mid-Late Fighter: Tony Ki-61-Ia (3x30)
Late Fighter: Frank Ki-84a (4x30, 1x60)
Late long Range Fighter: Steve Ki-83 (4x30)
Late high altitude: Randy Ki-102a (2x30)

Early-Mid Fighter Bomber: Nick Ki-45 KAIa (2x30)
Late Fighter Bomber: Randy Ki-102b (2x30)

Mid Interceptor: Tojo Ki-44-IIa (2x30)
Mid-Late Interceptor: Tony Ki-61-II KAI/Ki-100-II

Mid Night Fighter: Nick Ki-45 KAId (2x30)
Late Night Fighter: Randy Ki-102c (2x30)

Early Bomber/ASW: Sally Ki-21-IIa (40/month)
Early-Mid Bomber: Helen Ki-49-Ia (1x30)
Late Bomber: Peggy Ki-67-Ia (2x30)

Kami: Ki-119 (2x30)

Early Recon: Dinah Ki-46-II (15/Month)
Mid- Late Recon: Dinah Ki-46-III (0x30)
Late Recon: Ki-95 (1x30)

Early Transport: Topsy Ki-57-I (10/Month)
Mid-Late Transport: Helen Ki-49-II KAI (1x30)

NAVY

Early Fighter/CV: Zero A6M2 (100/Month)
Mid Fighter/CV: Zero A6M5/A6M5c (stop)
Mid-Late Fighter: George N1K1-J (4x30)
Late Fighter/CV: Sam A7M2 (8x30)

Mid-Late Interceptor: Jack J2M2 (4x30)

Mid Night Fighter: Irving J1N1-S (2x30)
Late Night Fighter: Frances P1Y2-S (1x30)

Float Plane FIghter: Rufe A6M2-N (4x30) shortcut for A6M5

Early Bomber: Betty G4M1 (40/Month)
Mid-Late Bomber: Frances P1Y1 (2x30)
Long Range Bomber/Search: Nell G3M2 (30/Month)

Early Dive Bomber: Val D3A1 (30/Month)
Mid-Late Dive Bombar: Judy D4Y1 (3x30)
Late Long Range Dive Bomber: Grace B7A2 (1x30)

Early Torpedo Bomber/ASW: Kate B5N2 (30/Month)
Mid-Late Torpedo Bomber: Jill B6N1 (3x30)
SS Torpedo Bomber: Seiran M6A1 (1x5)

Late ASW: Lorna Q1W1 (1x30)

Early Patrol: Mavis H6K4 (15/Month)
Early-Mid-Late Patrol: Emily H8K1/Emily H8K2 (1x30)

Early Recon: Babs C5M2 (15/Month)
Mid Recon: Irving J1N1-C (1x30)
Late Recon: Myrt C6N1 (1x30)

Float Plane/ASW: Jake E13A1 (50/Month)
Late FLoat Plane: Jake E13A1b (1x30)
SS Float Plane: Glen E14Y1 (9/Month)

Early Transport: Tina L3Y2 (10/Month)
Early Transport: Mavis H6K2-L (1x10)
Mid-Late Transport: Emily H8K2-L (1x30)

Engines
I still don't know but thanks to Tracker I can figure them out pretty quickly.

Vehicles
I want to double the production

Armaments
No modifications

Naval/Merchant Yards
No modifications

Repair Yards
+40 Tokyo

Well, lot of supply spent for sure, of course I will check closely my HI production but I should be able to run all this stuff (please correct me if I am wrong!)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/19/2021 8:42:43 PM >

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 35

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/19/2021 9:06:48 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

Uhm...again I thought that just setting several ships with home port Fusan and stockpiling resources would have been enough.

Yes, stockpile the resources at Fusan and move it with small freighters 2 hexes to Japan. But if you increase the amount of LI, you will increase the natural demand for resources there so you can remove more from there to send to Japan. It is cheaper in oil to do that than from Port Arthur or Shanghai, it is safer, and those small xAKLs will load and unload fast.

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 36

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/24/2021 10:20:51 PM

OnWargaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

Do you move oil from Korea?

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 37

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/24/2021 11:22:09 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

Do you move oil from Korea?

Yes.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 38

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 6:35:33 AM

OnWargaming

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Uhm...you are an expert player and obviously know that Manchukuo refineries need oil too and the Korea one is the most direct resource.
Therefore what am I missing?

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 39

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 11:48:01 AM

RangerJoe

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Count up how much oil that you have on the mainland and how much that you need. Now do the same for the Home Islands. Do not forget to add in any captured oil in China even if it is quite a ways away from the refineries. If the refineries need the oil, then the oil will move instead of filling up the storage and quit producing oil.

You can also load oil from inland ports in China and stockpile it at Shanghai for movement to the Home Islands.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 11/25/2021 12:00:40 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 40

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 5:47:11 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count up how much oil that you have on the mainland and how much that you need. Now do the same for the Home Islands. Do not forget to add in any captured oil in China even if it is quite a ways away from the refineries. If the refineries need the oil, then the oil will move instead of filling up the storage and quit producing oil.

You can also load oil from inland ports in China and stockpile it at Shanghai for movement to the Home Islands.

A very long overland movement!
Do you know if there is any waste of resources when they travel very far?

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 41

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 7:43:59 PM

OnWargaming

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First turn sent!!!!!

I don't know you but I spent a lot of time planning and moving all stuff, I am having fun even if not a single turn has been played yet

Anyhow tonight I will watch Tora! Tora! Tora!, a relaxing movie about a diplomatic affair.

Banzai!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 42

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 8:00:22 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count up how much oil that you have on the mainland and how much that you need. Now do the same for the Home Islands. Do not forget to add in any captured oil in China even if it is quite a ways away from the refineries. If the refineries need the oil, then the oil will move instead of filling up the storage and quit producing oil.

You can also load oil from inland ports in China and stockpile it at Shanghai for movement to the Home Islands.

A very long overland movement!
Do you know if there is any waste of resources when they travel very far?

It does not matter about the wastage if they are not where they can be used.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 43

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/25/2021 8:58:16 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

First turn sent!!!!!

I don't know you but I spent a lot of time planning and moving all stuff, I am having fun even if not a single turn has been played yet

Anyhow tonight I will watch Tora! Tora! Tora!, a relaxing movie about a diplomatic affair.

Banzai!

Unlike TMTSNBM, Tora, Tora, Tora does not feature Zeros blowing up warships with their machine cannons, nor ex-RAF pilots shooting down multiple Japanese planes.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/29/2021 8:52:11 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 44

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/26/2021 12:01:28 AM

mind_messing

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Some R&D thoughts from me.

IJA

Randy: I wouldn't bother with the Randy B - it's just not a worthwhile improvement over the Nick. The Randy A is a much better option (as all your fighter squadrons can convert vs a small number of FB squadrons to the Randy B).

I like the Oscar, glad to see you're planning on using it for all it's worth.

IJA fighters feel oversaturated. Oscar, Tony, Frank, the 83, Tojo, and Randy A. I feel you could cut one (and maybe two - suggest Randy A and Tojo as they're less flexible than the other aircraft).

Strongly suggest emphasis on the Peggy (T) model rather than the Ia. Having an IJA aircraft for torpedo attacks is a big plus in the late game.

Similarly, no Lily dive bomber. Opinion is divided on this, but I like it.

IJN

Good choice on the Sam, makes better sense to me than the late war Zero models.

I'd pick the Jack or the George, but not both. I tend to favour the George.

NF's look fine, but all the choices are bad.

With the IJN level bombers, I'd solely build the Nell M3 model. Not much difference between that and the Betty, but it has fantastic range. You need the Frances to have a reasonable aircraft in this role. Just note, however, that the P1Y1 model has a service rating of 4, and is an absolute nightmare to use in anything close to combat conditions. Suggest emphasis on the Y2 model, which has a much more helpful service rating of 2.

I think you need a little more on the Judy. The Val is bad, and you need rid of it, and the D4Y4 is a key airframe for that 800kg bomb (which gives you the ability to really hurt battleships without using torpedoes).

With the torpedo bombers, the Jill is fine, but the Grace should be the real goal. A combined dive/torpedo bomber is a massive boon to the IJN.

The factories on the Lorna are just a waste, it's a pretty useless airframe and the G3M3 Nell can do it better.

Recon-wise, don't bother with the Irving. Nothing it can do that the Dinah already can't. Focus on the Myrt instead, that thing has crazy long range.

No sense in researching the Jake B model before it's natural arrival time. The only real difference between the two models is the radar set, which doesn't become active until mid-44. Not worth the effort.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother researching the IJN transports. You get decent airlift capacity as Japan from already existing models, so you should be fine to wait for these.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 45

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/29/2021 7:34:05 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

I am taken few days off from WitP after the first turn click marathon.

A couple of Field of Glory Medieval PBEM games and a Saga game (miniatures) at my local club, but now is time to come back in the Pacific!

Well, not immediately at least, we agreed to start on 7th December, 80 years after the historical date, we cannot pass on this one

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 46

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/29/2021 8:19:28 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Some R&D thoughts from me.

...

Thank you very much for your time spent on checking my R&D, much appreciated!

IJA
Randy B: I thought that its superior armament (GV19) and 2x250kg bombs could be useful

Fighters: you are right but it was intentional, I don't want a specific aircraft that will arrive too early

Peggy (T): how the pilots can be trained?

LiLy: the main reason is its low payload, how do you use this bomber?

IJN
Bombers: Frances is the choice, Betty only until its arrive.
Nell will be produced for all the time, beside long range base attack I want to use it on Naval Search as well.

Judy: ok, I think I can add another 1x30

Grace: uhm, therefore SR2 and no radar is going to be better anyway?

Lorna: my thinking was to use it on ASW duty, radar and MAD are not a good combo?

Irving Recon: roger

Jake: my bad, I totally forgot the radar activation! I have to check the radar activations on the editor.

Emily Transport: yes but I can keep supplied almost all my Pacific bases

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 47

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/29/2021 10:23:49 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

Thank you very much for your time spent on checking my R&D, much appreciated!

If you've not realised it already, IJ players have a thing for R&D plans. Everyone has their own particular take, and everyone else does something slightly wrong or sub-optimal as a result.

quote:

Randy B: I thought that its superior armament (GV19) and 2x250kg bombs could be useful

The devil is in the details.

The Randy B carries the Ho-401 cannon, so while it does have the stronger gun value, the Ho-401 has an accuracy rating of 4 (compared with the typical 20-30 range of value for typical aircraft weapons). That means it's pretty unlikely to hit in air to air combat.

The Nick gets one 20mm cannon, 2 MG's and 2x250kg bombs, so you're effectively spending the R&D effort for a slight performance improvement on the Nick and an extra 20mm cannon. Not worth it IMO.

quote:

Peggy (T): how the pilots can be trained?

You can train your IJA pilots in NavB the same way as you do for the IJA. You can't train NavT until the Peggy arrives, so that can be a challenge (and the more reason to move this plane forward ASAP).

IMO it's an essential plane for IJ late-war, as the IJN doesn't have the depth to be able to keep training pilots for naval attack missions (be it for carrier squadrons or land squadrons) alone as the war ramps up in intensity. The IJA (and the Peggy T) is needed to be able to share the load between the two organisations.

Generally speaking, you also need the torpedoes. Given Allied damage control, it takes a few 250kg bombs to cause problems. Much less torpedoes are needed.

quote:

LiLy: the main reason is its low payload, how do you use this bomber?

Dedicated IJA anti-shipping platform up until the Peggy T arrives. It's a dive bomber, and it's IJA. It's an absolute steal for what it is.

The low payload is a bit of a disadvantage, but the 100kg bombs will do fine on anything that's smaller than a CA. I've had particular success with them as CVE killers, and they do a good job dealing with Fletcher squadrons as the war progresses.

quote:

Bombers: Frances is the choice, Betty only until its arrive.
Nell will be produced for all the time, beside long range base attack I want to use it on Naval Search as well.

I'd just cut the Betty out completely for the sake of it, but that's just me.

quote:

Grace: uhm, therefore SR2 and no radar is going to be better anyway?

Yes.

SR 2 isn't all that punishing in my experience, especially not for carrier based aircraft. It's only SR3 and (particularly) SR4 where I feel it bite.

The N-6 radar on the Jill doesn't arrive until 10/44, so the Jill is radar-less until that point.

Grace has 50km/h on the Jill. This is absolutely critical late-war, when overcoming the Allied radar advantage is vital to get good returns. Aircraft speed is an important input into getting the advantage.

Grace is dual purpose, in that it is a dive-bomber with torpedo capability. If you're in a position where a base or carrier has no torpedoes, the Grace is able to effectively attack ships. That's a pretty big consideration, especially in carrier engagements - if for whatever reason the Grace's don't take torpedoes, they'll still be able to attack effectively with bombs. With 2x250kg bombs, that's a reasonable payload. The Jill would be forced to level bomb with reduced accuracy, whereas the Grace can do dive bombing with much better accuracy.

It's an amazing option for the IJN for the flexibility it affords. No other airframe in the IJN arsenal can move between land-based and carrier-based operations, as well as torpedo and dive bombing attack profiles with as much flexibility.

quote:

Lorna: my thinking was to use it on ASW duty, radar and MAD are not a good combo?

Miserable range, with ASW patrols the range of an aircraft is cut in half. That gives you 3 hexes of ASW search, which is pretty poor.

Japan doesn't get the MAD until 6/44, and the FM-3 radar on the Lorna doesn't arrive until 6/45. By that point you won't be too fussed about ASW efforts.

Best option is to ditch that, and build extra G3M3. The extra range will be better for you, and they'll get the H-6 radar in 6/44 anyhow.

quote:

Jake: my bad, I totally forgot the radar activation! I have to check the radar activations on the editor.

See above comments regarding other radar activation dates. Like I said, the devil is in the details, and once understood makes a lot of otherwise attractive airframes seem much less attractive.

quote:

Kami: Ki-119 (2x30)

Minor point, but I'd go for the 115 over the 119. The 115 is effectively the same plane, but arrives 6 months earlier and being a level bomber (the 119 is a fighter bomber) more squadrons can use it. Not worth using the 119 in a fighter bomber role, as the Nick can do it all anyways.

I don't think the dedicated kamikaze planes are worth it. In my experience, you're better using older existing models, as they offer more flexibility via their additional range, and (more importantly) you can build deeper pools. Compare, for example, the Helen IIb vs the Ki-115, or the Frances vs the Toka.

For some extra homework, also worth consideration is the:

J7W1 Shinden as the only realistic late-war option for the IJN land-based fighter cadre.

Ki-74 Patsy as a late-war IJA long-range bomber, perfect for counter-raids on B-29 airbases and long-range kamikaze strikes.

Ki-94 as the IJA's response to the Thunderbolt.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 48

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/1/2021 3:49:54 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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Lot of inputs again, many thanks!

In my first turn I don't have changed my R&D factories yet (I want to check how many supplies I have already spent and no repairs until 10K+ stock anyway).
Moreover if I am right, it is possible to repair only one factory per turn and I prefer that the actual production goes first.

You use some aircraft in a different role respect my observations (and they are theorical only given that I still no have enough experience yet) and the fixed radar activation dates really change some of my initial assumptions.
Luckily I can modify my initial plan without any waste of supplies, I will post the updated one.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 49

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/1/2021 4:09:00 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

Lot of inputs again, many thanks!

In my first turn I don't have changed my R&D factories yet (I want to check how many supplies I have already spent and no repairs until 10K+ stock anyway).
Moreover if I am right, it is possible to repair only one factory per turn and I prefer that the actual production goes first.

You use some aircraft in a different role respect my observations (and they are theorical only given that I still no have enough experience yet) and the fixed radar activation dates really change some of my initial assumptions.
Luckily I can modify my initial plan without any waste of supplies, I will post the updated one.

You can repair only one point per factory per turn but you can repair as many different factories that you want as long as the supplies are there. Yes, you need 10k+ in supplies before any repairs are made.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 50

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/1/2021 5:02:13 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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Thanks for correcting me!
I am glad to have started this AAR, I am learning a lot because I can immediately apply what I read in a more meaningful way.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 51

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/1/2021 6:03:01 PM

mind_messing

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Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

Lot of inputs again, many thanks!

...

You use some aircraft in a different role respect my observations (and they are theorical only given that I still no have enough experience yet) and the fixed radar activation dates really change some of my initial assumptions.
Luckily I can modify my initial plan without any waste of supplies, I will post the updated one.

It's also worth spending some time to actually understand the relative value of the radar sets that Japan has access to as well.

The MAD device is relatively worthless in comparison to "real" radars. The H-6 and N-6 radars are your bread and butter, and they're found in IJN airframes only.

Worth doing a comparison between the G3M3 (with the H-6 radar) and the Lorna (with the FM-3 radar). The the Nell, you can have a ASW plane with an operational range of 26 hexes, the becomes radar equipped in 6/44.

With the Lorna, you've a plane that's limited to 6 hexes and a radar set that actives in 10/45. I wouldn't consider MAD as worth all that much, as that's effectively all it has going for it (and even then you can use the Helen Ia for an easier route to that - and IJA too!).

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 52

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/6/2021 3:44:24 PM

OnWargaming

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Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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And we have the first turn!
Daniel sent me the file but I will run it tomorrow night, exactly 80 years after the historical event!

I put all the message settings to max delay (4.5), I don't know how many time will require to watch the whole turn but it will be like a TV series

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Post #: 53

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 12/6/2021 4:20:31 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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It will take awhile to run the turn. You learn to read quickly but if English is not your native language then slower may be better for you, at least at first.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 54

First turn! - 12/8/2021 2:50:07 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

Finally we start our game, I think it is worthy to watch the replay because you can understand a few things about the game.

Pearl Harbour
My TBs were loaded with more 800kg bombs than torpedoes, not sure why but they made their job anyway.
All midgets got lost in the harbour.

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 88
B5N2 Kate x 116
D3A1 Val x 135

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 11 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed, 22 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 22 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 88 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 10 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 35 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 4 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 10 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 62 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 20 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 5 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 56 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 6 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 9 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 5 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 9 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Montgomery, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Henley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Downes, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AR Medusa, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 27
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 86
Port hits 16

These guys made a private run, classy.

Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 70
B5N2 Kate x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 8 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Schley, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Port hits 5

BB Arizona and 3 DD sunk, I heard another ship that probably sunk, maybe the BBs with heavy fires and damage have a chance to meet the seabed. 18 Catalina destroyed and this is a nice plus.
My losses: 11 Kates and 1 Val.
Given that I am not playing for the autovictory and this old BBs are not my main concern I will leave PH to protect my invasion TFs.
The good news to have lot of torpedoes still available is that I don't need to rearm my KB immediately.

China
Pengpu and Tsingsing captured after a quick battle.
Chinese troops converting to Ichang and Synyang (center), Kweisui and Paotow (NE), I will follow the suggestions received and I will try to hold Synyang only.

Hong Kong
3 Mabel sunk a DD

Philippines
Vigan captured by paratroopers.
Clark Field under heavy attack, the airfield should be out for a while.

Malaya
We land at Kota Bharu, a Dutch SS launched a torpedo but luckly miss the target.
Strong CAP over Singapore and we lost 11 Nell/Betty, the airfield should be out of service for a couple of days at least.

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Post #: 55

RE: First turn! - 12/8/2021 3:49:43 PM

RangerJoe

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To see how many BBs sank, check on the number of float planes destroyed on the ground. They carry 2 of them.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 56

RE: First turn! - 12/8/2021 3:55:17 PM

Nomad

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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

To see how many BBs sank, check on the number of float planes destroyed on the ground. They carry 2 of them.

His screenshot shows 4 Kingfishers destroyed on the field. Sounds like 2 BBs went down on this turn. He might see more in the next day or two if fires on the unsunk BBs rage on.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 57

RE: First turn! - 12/8/2021 4:20:38 PM

OnWargaming

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Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

To see how many BBs sank, check on the number of float planes destroyed on the ground. They carry 2 of them.

Thanks, time to learn wich FP are used for the main Allied ships then

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 58

RE: First turn! - 12/8/2021 4:24:38 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

To see how many BBs sank, check on the number of float planes destroyed on the ground. They carry 2 of them.

His screenshot shows 4 Kingfishers destroyed on the field. Sounds like 2 BBs went down on this turn. He might see more in the next day or two if fires on the unsunk BBs rage on.

Interesting, to prevent this free intel he can transfer his FP from the badly damaged ship.

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 59

RE: First turn! - 12/8/2021 4:26:51 PM

Nomad

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Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

To see how many BBs sank, check on the number of float planes destroyed on the ground. They carry 2 of them.

Thanks, time to learn wich FP are used for the main Allied ships then

USN BBs carry OS2U-3 Kingfishers, USN CAs and CLs carry SOC-1 Seagulls

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 60

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