Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic

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Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 5:38:22 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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This comes from my AAR - as I started study a bit more freight

Here I am to detail the fate of the depot of Mozhaysk. That was a Priority 4 depot the previous turn, with a nice amount of freight stocked up! Almost 5000 Freight! And this turn, as it went down to Priority 3, it sent out Freight en mass. And received 0 even!

So - we learn that of that 5000 Freight nothing went to troops. There are no red lines connecting the depot to units right?

We've 2 White Lines, as per rail connections that moved the Freight to another depot.

What I wanted - and I believe it is logical - is that the freight went closer to the front, in Kubinka. 4 hexes of rail to the east. Certainly some sizeable enough railyard is in 30 hexes range to do that type of move!

BUT Quartermaster General AI decided that Kubinka had to receive freight from Berlin (If that was ontop of Mozhaysk's, no harm!) and Prague. So that traffic arrived in Mozhaysk (M in the future) and moved further east. 1725 Freight shipped to Kubinka.

Then the freight from M got split. Some was destined to the airbase designated to serve some airlift squadrons. Thus that one must be kept filled, certainly so. Alas the move was -westward- and further away from the front. Being already almost full, only 276 Freight was delivered to Vladimirskoe.

Excellent! (NOT) M. Freight goes further westward even, probably around Smolensk or Vitbesk and then takes a detour north, through Velike Luki ... or goes west first just to Vyazma and then north to roughly Rhzev, to then turn west... headed toward Germany or so. But it was an illusion. At Velike Luki or the like turns back to east. There, the detour ends, in Andreapol.

Where is the logic in that?

I tell you, there is no logic.

BUT there is also another problem.

MATH!

M. sent out 4651 Freight!
V. received 276. Andreapol 930. That to me mathes in 1206.

4651 - 1206 = 3445 Freight

Considering it has not been given to the units (as said no red lines), and it does not appear as 'lost' ... has it disappeared? Or where that Freight has gone?

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RE: Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 6:56:10 PM

Rosencrantus

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
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I've also noticed stored freight going missing from my super depot once I set the priority to 3 in Kharkov on my current turn in my StB against Tyronec. Thought I was just going crazy but it seems like it wasn't only me.

< Message edited by Rosencrantus -- 12/15/2021 7:09:39 PM >

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 2

RE: Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 7:10:50 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

...

So - we learn that of that 5000 Freight nothing went to troops. There are no red lines connecting the depot to units right?

...

Considering it has not been given to the units (as said no red lines), and it does not appear as 'lost' ... has it disappeared? Or where that Freight has gone?

...

I'm afraid these assertions are wrong. As in the manual (except below) all the red line shows is the depot that sent tbe bulk of freight to that unit, if you look at the unit supply tab you will see all the depots that contributed - something that is not shown with the 8 key

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RE: Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 7:54:22 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

I am sorry Loki but I went about to check an amount of units in the proximity - Moscow zone, right clicking them oneby one and going in Supply Details, and not a single unit took freight from Mozhaisk.

But yes, units took Freight from other depots, in occasions from more than 1 depot. But no one of the ones I checked took freight from Mozhaisk. And with 3.5k Freight missing, there should be aplenty that has been distributed there.

Unless it is 'invisible' ... is the Supply Detail inclusive of manpower replacements for instance? (making a hypothesis that may justify the absence of the label of freight delivery from that depot).

(in reply to loki100)

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RE: Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 10:37:20 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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What did the event log show as far as freight used versus freight to units? I have been down this rabbit hole many times, having Gary step through various situations and all I can say is that there are many ways that freight gets used, and much is indeed invisible. It's not just stuff getting shipped to other depots and units. And yes, the8 key only shows 1 line going to each unit or depot. I see a lot of depots on that map so it's anybody's guess as to why that depot could not draw freight, and it is not unique in this regards re level 3 and 2 depots. The only way to get stuff for sure would be to keep it a 4. As for moving east or west, no, the system isn't that smart. So the fact that you have a 4 to the west of the 3 opens it up to have it shipped there. There's all kinds of inefficiency in real life, so it doesn't necessarily bother me that it happens here.

I realize the freight system is hard to figure out and hard to understand how to maximize. I just can't think of how we can alter it in a way that it would still do what we want it to do and have it be easier to manipulate and understand for the player. I really wish I had a better answer for you, but the complexity of the system is off the charts. Even Gary can't really keep it all in his head anymore.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 12/15/2021 10:38:05 PM >

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: Disappearing Freight & Freight Logic - 12/15/2021 11:12:06 PM

Stamb

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
...
As for moving east or west, no, the system isn't that smart. So the fact that you have a 4 to the west of the 3 opens it up to have it shipped there.
...

What about adding a select (dropdown list) where player can specify where freight is going (East, West and All Directions which represents current system). When playing as an Axis and selecting East it means that freight movement from East to West is not possible, even if depots on the East have lower priority than in the West. So we can still have a depots like 0 1 1 1 4 3 3. And this last two depots with priority 3 can not send freight to 4 that is behind them. They can keep or send it further to the East. There will be a problem with North or South...

Ideally players should be able to manually select from where to where depot is allowed to ship and get some visual representation how many trains are needed/available for that path.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 6