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RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhein GC

 
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RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/19/2021 7:00:29 PM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Good job! So how long did it take you to do a turn? That is one big scenario!

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 31
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/19/2021 7:28:44 PM   
OnWargaming


Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro

With over 300 points...I have won! Trying to reach Liege, but this game is over!


Sorry, do you won the game without even crossing the Meuse?

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 32
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/19/2021 7:35:52 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming


quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro

With over 300 points...I have won! Trying to reach Liege, but this game is over!


Sorry, do you won the game without even crossing the Meuse?



Hi hi my point (or whatever the point), you need to try at least to cross the Meuse
The performance points are still awesome, there shall be a lot of US troops destroyed !!! Destruction of ennemy troops give a lots of points.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 12/19/2021 7:44:22 PM >

(in reply to OnWargaming)
Post #: 33
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/19/2021 8:24:51 PM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming


quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro

With over 300 points...I have won! Trying to reach Liege, but this game is over!


Sorry, do you won the game without even crossing the Meuse?



Yes. I have more than 150 victory points, which are required for a Major Victory

(in reply to OnWargaming)
Post #: 34
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/19/2021 8:28:26 PM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002

Good job! So how long did it take you to do a turn? That is one big scenario!


A turn could take up to 1.5 to two hours. I don't spend a lot of time reviewing combat details. I go pretty fast. On turns where I have to make important decisions about troops movements, they can take longer. I started the game on November 26, so almost 3 weeks to finish. A few times I did 2 complete days (4 turns per day) in one day.

Working from home is a big help. Whenever I have down time...I'm on the game.

(in reply to Jagger2002)
Post #: 35
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 12:39:15 AM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline 		12.29.44 0600 | Points: 324




This song is over

Soy fell, Werbomont retaken, outside St Hubert, Samree and Laroche

I can advance at will for the most part. As you can see from the map, I simply keep advancing. I meet pockets of resistance, but at this point, I can do as I wish.



I have almost more fuel now than at the start of the campaign, due to the capturing of depots


Notes
324 points. 565 PP. I don’t even use the cards anymore

I was going to try to reach the Meuse...but why bother. It is STILL a long way off.


FINAL THOUGHTS

This was fun. That is enough to play the game. This is my first Decisive Campaigns game and while it took some time to get adjusted to the interface and the game play, I like it.

The AI...well...it wasn't that good. I played on normal difficulty. It would keep units next to mine and never attack. It withdrew rather easily in some areas, and none at all in others. What makes a game enjoyable is if I can imitate the historical situation the game is portraying. Reach the Meuse...you might in the game, but it didn't happen in real life so that seems fair. If I could not reach any of the objectives that were reached in real life, that would be a let down. This game, I feel, gives you a good chance at driving deep into the Allied lines.

Panzers get chewed up pretty easily. While it is fun to have a bunch of Panthers roll over enemy units, I'd probably be a touch more conservative with them next time.
One thing I noticed, Allied division HQs are really hard to take out. I don't think that should be the case. Multiple attacks were needed against HQs and that just seems wrong.
Fuel...that I feel is portrayed well. Those panzers being able to only move a few KM a turn is frustrating. But capture some depots...and it can change the balance.

Another element I enjoyed was planning my campaign and realizing how ridiculous this plan was in real life. Antwerp! Never would have happened. Those tiny roads in the big forests. Not panzer terrain.

Well done Vic on a great game!


All I had to do was to cross the river, capture Brussels, and then go on to take the port of Antwerp. The snow was waist-deep and there wasn’t room to deploy four tanks abreast, let alone six armored divisions. It didn’t get light until eight and was dark again at four, and my tanks can’t fight at night. And all this at Christmas time!
-Sepp Dietrich



(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 36
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 1:29:21 AM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Well now you need to round somebody up and do the scenario PBEM with AAR. If you can get three-four turns done a week, it would take about 3-4 months to complete. 6-8 hours a week is significant time commitment but doable. Some of the monster games are simply impossible to play but I think this one could be done realistically.

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 37
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 8:00:36 AM   
OnWargaming


Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro


quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming


quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro

With over 300 points...I have won! Trying to reach Liege, but this game is over!


Sorry, do you won the game without even crossing the Meuse?



Yes. I have more than 150 victory points, which are required for a Major Victory



I am a bit puzzled, do you have achieved the double of points needed for a major victory without following the original plan?
Of course as armchair generals playing a game almost 80 years later we are aware about a lot of infos, but historically the whole offensive was intended to cut off the enemy force north of the line Antwerp-Liège-Aachen and it would be nice trying to outperform the historical outcome.

Aside my personal opinion about the victory condintions, congrats for your victory and thank for the AAR


< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 12/20/2021 8:02:07 AM >

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 38
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 8:41:16 AM   
nikdav


Posts: 895
Joined: 3/9/2008
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Can you upload the final victory screen ?

It could be interesting also to see final total losses !

Davide


(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 39
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 8:53:53 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

I am a bit puzzled, do you have achieved the double of points needed for a major victory without following the original plan?
Of course as armchair generals playing a game almost 80 years later we are aware about a lot of infos, but historically the whole offensive was intended to cut off the enemy force north of the line Antwerp-Liège-Aachen and it would be nice trying to outperform the historical outcome.

Aside my personal opinion about the victory condintions, congrats for your victory and thank for the AAR



Historically they did not get victory points for destroying enemy units ;-)
We have them, so successful killing brings victory, same way as taking cities.
We can reconsider VP objectives, to make it impossible for major victory without crossing Meuse River, though :-)

(in reply to OnWargaming)
Post #: 40
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 9:06:24 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro

FINAL THOUGHTS

This was fun. That is enough to play the game. This is my first Decisive Campaigns game and while it took some time to get adjusted to the interface and the game play, I like it.

(...)

Panzers get chewed up pretty easily. While it is fun to have a bunch of Panthers roll over enemy units, I'd probably be a touch more conservative with them next time.
One thing I noticed, Allied division HQs are really hard to take out. I don't think that should be the case. Multiple attacks were needed against HQs and that just seems wrong.
Fuel...that I feel is portrayed well. Those panzers being able to only move a few KM a turn is frustrating. But capture some depots...and it can change the balance.

Another element I enjoyed was planning my campaign and realizing how ridiculous this plan was in real life. Antwerp! Never would have happened. Those tiny roads in the big forests. Not panzer terrain.

Well done Vic on a great game!



I think armored vehicles are too fragile in this game - (Panzers get chewed up pretty easily)
I knew historically biggest problem with advance was because of terrain, not fuel - (Those tiny roads in the big forests) FBB drived 20 km three days on rear areas of panzer division - roads are well portraited in game!
I like interface in Vic' game too - (adjusted to the interface and the game play, I like it) with the exception of His editors

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 41
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 4:31:26 PM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline 		Just a few follow up images

Here is the victory point break down
189VP for occupied locations on the map
135VP for losses inflicted



Casualties



Now I didn't cross the Meuse, but in the north and south I did do better than historically. So even with just the occupied locations, I still beat the 150VP needed.

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 42
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 5:02:40 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline 		Congratulations on your victory & thank you for sharing, much respect.

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 43
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 8:22:28 PM   
nikdav


Posts: 895
Joined: 3/9/2008
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks, we got many info to fine tune next version !

Davide

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 44
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 9:27:49 PM   
carll11


Posts: 791
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline 		Loutro, would you be kind enough to provide some background on a few points;

1) how did you get past/handle the US troops on the Hofen to Hollerath ridge axis ( Elsenborn theatre)? It seems you go through there fairly quickly.

2) the allied airpower, when the skys cleared, how effective are they? I am only in turn 8 and have the 'german glance' lol....

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 45
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/20/2021 10:37:43 PM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carll11

Loutro, would you be kind enough to provide some background on a few points;

1) how did you get past/handle the US troops on the Hofen to Hollerath ridge axis ( Elsenborn theatre)? It seems you go through there fairly quickly.

2) the allied airpower, when the skys cleared, how effective are they? I am only in turn 8 and have the 'german glance' lol....


On the road from Ramscheid to Elsenborn 12SS and 277VG
On the lower orange road, 1SS and 12VG
326VG took the northerly road to Hofen with Korps arty units

Bullingen is the choke point. It took until late 12/16 or early 12/17 to clear that mess, but I threw everything I had at that town

As far as the dreaded Jabos, yeah they hit me on occasion, but I don't think they slowed me down. I'd lose about 30-50 guys per attack, depending on terrain etc.

(in reply to carll11)
Post #: 46
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/21/2021 7:41:01 PM   
Goodenough


Posts: 35
Joined: 6/20/2016
From: UK
Status: offline 		Thank you loutro

That was informative and fun to read.

Well played!

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 47
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/21/2021 10:07:54 PM   
carll11


Posts: 791
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro


quote:

ORIGINAL: carll11

Loutro, would you be kind enough to provide some background on a few points;

1) how did you get past/handle the US troops on the Hofen to Hollerath ridge axis ( Elsenborn theatre)? It seems you go through there fairly quickly.

2) the allied airpower, when the skys cleared, how effective are they? I am only in turn 8 and have the 'german glance' lol....


On the road from Ramscheid to Elsenborn 12SS and 277VG
On the lower orange road, 1SS and 12VG
326VG took the northerly road to Hofen with Korps arty units

Bullingen is the choke point. It took until late 12/16 or early 12/17 to clear that mess, but I threw everything I had at that town

As far as the dreaded Jabos, yeah they hit me on occasion, but I don't think they slowed me down. I'd lose about 30-50 guys per attack, depending on terrain etc.


How did you deal with the inf. on that Hofen to Hollerath ridge? I attacked after pocketing them and am getting chewed up, even with the nebelwefers etc., digging the US inf out of their is gutting my units.....

(in reply to loutro)
Post #: 48
RE: Christmas in Antwerp! Easter in Paris? Wacht am Rhe... - 12/22/2021 5:58:20 AM   
loutro


Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carll11


quote:

ORIGINAL: loutro


quote:

ORIGINAL: carll11

Loutro, would you be kind enough to provide some background on a few points;

1) how did you get past/handle the US troops on the Hofen to Hollerath ridge axis ( Elsenborn theatre)? It seems you go through there fairly quickly.

2) the allied airpower, when the skys cleared, how effective are they? I am only in turn 8 and have the 'german glance' lol....


On the road from Ramscheid to Elsenborn 12SS and 277VG
On the lower orange road, 1SS and 12VG
326VG took the northerly road to Hofen with Korps arty units

Bullingen is the choke point. It took until late 12/16 or early 12/17 to clear that mess, but I threw everything I had at that town

As far as the dreaded Jabos, yeah they hit me on occasion, but I don't think they slowed me down. I'd lose about 30-50 guys per attack, depending on terrain etc.


How did you deal with the inf. on that Hofen to Hollerath ridge? I attacked after pocketing them and am getting chewed up, even with the nebelwefers etc., digging the US inf out of their is gutting my units.....



To be honest I can’t remember exactly. What units are you using there?

(in reply to carll11)
Post #: 49
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