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What is the defense value of a unit for theater box purposes?

 
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What is the defense value of a unit for theater box pur... - 12/21/2021 4:15:31 AM   
thedoctorking


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Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		I see that theater boxes have a required defense strength for ground, day air, and night air units. I think I can see what the defense value of ground units is, but how does one calculate this value for air? I've got a game where the Far East and Transcaucasus are both really short of air defense value. I keep sending them crappy fighter squadrons, and the value doesn't seem to change much.
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/21/2021 6:24:54 AM   
glenhope

 

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Joined: 6/8/2021
Status: offline 		I didn't know this either but I saw someone provide the answer. Each unit has a value and you can see it if you flip the theatre box unit display like you do for on-map forces. ie. between movement and defence values.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/21/2021 8:15:47 PM   
thedoctorking


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Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		This doesn't seem to work for me. When I hit "Z", which shifts the display over on the main map to attack strength=defense strength, nothing happens when I'm looking at air units in the theater boxes. I can click through to the unit for ground units and it shows its combat strength on the detail window as attack strength/defense strength (normally equal in the theater boxes), but there's no such figure reported for air units. It would be handy to be able to know how many air units the theater box needs and what each unit is worth. I was thinking of sending some of those long-range level bomber units that don't seem to be doing much good in Long Range Air Command, but I don't know if they even count in any way.

(in reply to glenhope)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/21/2021 9:15:47 PM   
Joel Billings


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From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		If you zoom in on the TB box on the map, you should be able to press z to see the CV value of the unit. Since there is no combat prep in the TBs, the attack/defense values of the units are the same. For the main combat unit types (infantry/armor/airborne, etc.), the CVs are straightforward. For other types, like artillery and construction, there's a limit to how much value they can contribute, and the values may not be straightforward. 6.10 in the manual talks a little about this.

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(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/21/2021 10:38:36 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Thanks, Joel. Is there similar information for air units? My concern is meeting the air defense requirement in the theater boxes. I can't figure out how much each unit is worth or whether some types of units (especially bombers) even contribute at all.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/22/2021 5:08:48 AM   
Joel Billings


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From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Somewhere there's a full description of the info you see in the TB box as far as how each type contributes and can have a max amount of that type based on the "base" item for that requirement (ground/air/naval). Everything listed there contributes some, but I can't tell you how it determines what value an air unit has. This you'd have to do by trial and error by removing or adding a unit and seeing how it changes things. You just want to make sure you're not adding items that are already over their max.

As an example, if you load Campaign 41 and go to the WE TB, notice that under ground vaule, Bomber is shown as maxing at 10% of the base, or 28.99 points. The number in parenthesis is 32.22, so you actually have a few more bombers there than your max, so they are not contributing anything.

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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/24/2021 2:24:47 PM   
Yogol

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

As an example, if you load Campaign 41 and go to the WE TB, notice that under ground vaule, Bomber is shown as maxing at 10% of the base, or 28.99 points. The number in parenthesis is 32.22, so you actually have a few more bombers there than your max, so they are not contributing anything.


This is very confusing, it is the opposite as the main line. I'll explain.

The numbers next to GROUND are 388.35 (410).

This means that you only have 388.35 CV and need 410.
So, the target is the number between brackets.


The numbers in the columns next to BOMBER at the start of the grand campaign are indeed 28.99 and (32.22).

Here, 28.99 is the target and 32.22 is the actual CV.
So, the number between brackets is the actual CV instead of the target.

.

Why is it the opposite as on the main GROUND line?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/24/2021 2:26:20 PM   
Yogol

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Thanks, Joel. Is there similar information for air units? My concern is meeting the air defense requirement in the theater boxes. I can't figure out how much each unit is worth or whether some types of units (especially bombers) even contribute at all.


In the first tab of the Theatre Box screen, you can click on "GROUND". It will then open a list of all types of units who's CV contributes to the GROUND defence (including, for example, bombers).

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/24/2021 5:10:44 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		The 28.99 is not the target, but the max that can be gained from this type, which is calculated by using the percentage number (10%) times the base CV value (289.94). I realize this can be confusing.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Yogol)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/24/2021 9:58:30 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		So bombers don't contribute to the air value but only to the ground, and only up to a certain point. Do AA contribute to the air value? Because that would be a good use for all those extra AA units.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/25/2021 12:26:23 AM   
Zovs


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Status: offline 		Yes I do believe AA count.

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(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/25/2021 1:26:15 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Status: offline 		AA does contribute to AIR!

If you expand the AIR list you'll see in which measure.

In my AAR I've made a small explaination that can come handy to understand the TB management - for how I understood it.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/25/2021 5:38:36 AM   
Yogol

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Bombers contribute to GROUND and to NAVAL. AA contributes to AIR DAY, AIR NIGHT and to Ground.
You can see this in the Theatre Box > tab "STATUS" > click on the little arrow next to GROUND or next to AIR DAY or so.


I have yet to figure out how the CV is distributed over the different types.
For example, when you start the Grand Campaign, in Western Europe, it says...

GROUND
Flak (low) (8%): 14.8

AIR DAY
Flak (low) (10%): 1.79

AIR NIGHT
Flak (low) (10%): 0.82

So only 17 CV of the Flak (low) is used.
But if I count all the Flak L CV in the individual AA units, it adds up to more than 100.
Odd, odd.

(in reply to AlbertN)
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RE: What is the defense value of a unit for theater box... - 12/25/2021 5:57:24 AM   
Yogol

 

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Joined: 11/30/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The 28.99 is not the target, but the max that can be gained from this type, which is calculated by using the percentage number (10%) times the base CV value (289.94). I realize this can be confusing.


Some oddities...

1) If I open the Grand Campaign and I look at the Theatre Bow of Western Europe, I see for Patrol (5%) 6.91 (6.91).

Based on what you say, I expect the number between brackets to stay the same if I move one patrol unit out of the box.
But it doesn't, the numbers go down to 6.71 (6.71). I expected the target value to stay the same and say 6.71 (6.91)

2) It is unclear for some units to what category they contribute. For example, if I remove recons, the Patrol value also goes down.

3) Moving Transports out of the box doesn't seem to do anything for any number.

Also, I need more night fighters, lol.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 14
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