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Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ?

 
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Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/21/2021 6:20:32 PM   
clamel

 

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Understanding that TRACOM doesn't help that much for the Allies, I still have an urge to send +80exp fighters somehow back behind the lines until they get better aircrafts in-43 onwards.

What I have a question about is that instead of signing them to TRACOM might I get any some use for them if they are assigned to AGs on US West Coast. I read an old thing that those top pilots actually helped the greenhorns to improve better in training.
I can't find anything in the manual and not much mentioned part of this old statement.

"As the Allies, you don't need to accelerate pilot training in the schools: you'll graduate enough of them. I use TRACOM as a waystation, before I send one of each of those pilots to on-map squadrons that are assigned to train flight school graduates. This allows the on-map squadrons to train faster.

For example in my PBEM game, Pappy Boyington is helping to train the pilots in a P-26 squadron at Pearl Harbor and Jimmy Thach is working with a Wildcat squadron on the West Coast. Neither are particularly happy with their assignments, but that's the best place for them."
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2852820

Well, what is you experience on this matter mates

(Don't slap me around for not finding something on this (I've had Alfred on my back, mostly helping but now and then not so kind). I have tried finding stuff, but sadly this might be a faster way to ask the more experience folks in this forum)
Post #: 1
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/21/2021 7:32:00 PM   
jdsrae


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I think it helps a bit by lifting the average experience level of the unit, with most trainees then being below the average.
With or without a veteran “Instructor” on the unit pilot list, I’ve noticed that trainee pilots (at large well supplied air bases) train up fast anyway.

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(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 2
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/21/2021 11:25:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I think it helps a bit by lifting the average experience level of the unit, with most trainees then being below the average.
With or without a veteran “Instructor” on the unit pilot list, I’ve noticed that trainee pilots (at large well supplied air bases) train up fast anyway.

That is my understanding - the pilots graduating from their year of training have a higher skill level when they become available to squadrons.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 3
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/22/2021 12:55:37 AM   
Ian R

 

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TRACOM helps, but only in tranches of 10 pilots. Once you can put 150 or 200 veterans in there, you see the results come through, but they are generalised - still helps though.

Some scenarios have dedicated training* groups on map - mine for example. Assigning 1 "instructor" is not very effective. Assigning 20 to train the other 80+ nuggets accelerates the process significantly. With those, I tend to bypass TRACOM and send the veterans to the training groups, so the effort is concentrated on the primary skills for pilots flying the class of aircraft. Once those skills hit 70 the pilots go to reserve.

[*meaning the "training group" box is checked in the editor, so those groups cannot fly missions other than training]

Both of these "instructor" roles help. I tend to go for the skill specific on map training, but YMMV.

As for putting 81+ guys in combat airgroups preparing for deployment, do a search for The Elf's posts on that subject. What you need for those is a leader with high leadership skill to train them.

One thing to be careful of is pulling all the recruits from the off map system into squadrons - you get pilots with single digit skills if you go too deep, and you have to train them on map in general skills as well as their role specific stuff.

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"I am Alfred"

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Post #: 4
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/22/2021 11:07:48 AM   
Sardaukar


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Restricted squadrons in Continental USA are great for pilot training.

Just put in leader with good Leadership and Air skill, set them 100% training and 0 range. That way you can dump pilots with 50 to 60 exp and Air/Naval Bombing/Low Naval/Ground Bombing/Naval Search/ASW etc. (depending on type of pilots you need) and Defensive skill both close to 70. Then they get to be really useful.

I even have "training squadron" in PH flying P-26 still Obsolete planes are perfect for squadrons I assign to pilot training.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 5
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/23/2021 6:55:05 PM   
clamel

 

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Thanks mates. So I think any top notch pilot +80 could do some use in a training squadron I got on US mainland. But if his just "another" pilot in that group, and not the Leader, qestion if he still give away hints and advice and make the other greenhorns a little push to be better. Don't think I see how a pilot first moved from a combat Sqd as a pilot to end up as be able to be picked as a Sqd Leader in a training Sqd. The different leaders are "fixed" at the start I thought since changing leader in a Sqd don't give you an option to pick another pilot in that Sqd, and that brings me to a question on leaders.

Many times you see one of the active pilots indeed be the Sqd Leader and I have a world of trouble getting him out from that Sqd, BUT then in some Sqd you see a leader not even being a pilot. An administrative leader so to say.
I might have missed how this work. When trying to swap to a new leader "inside" the Sqd I just can't seem to do that.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 6
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/23/2021 7:51:19 PM   
Ian R

 

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There are 'flying leaders' (asterisked in the leaders list) and there are non flying leaders; the latter don't get shot down - and replaced by some wood duck the exe picks.

As I said above, search for the Elf's comments on putting high experience leaders in combat air groups which are in training mode.

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"I am Alfred"

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Post #: 7
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/23/2021 9:47:55 PM   
Lowpe


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there is an addendum on pilot training in pdf in one of the folders that is good reading...plus some good threads about it if you search the forum....let me see what I can find really quickly:

Here you go:


(A). Patch 2 introduced two essential documents. both are found in the "Manuals" sub folder. One of these is the Pilot Management Addendum (the "PMA"). Section 7 of the PMA says the following:

7. Training
Skill and experience training has been changed slightly. They both increase
incrementally.
Points are accumulated for each skill/experience and once a certain level is reached, a
point is added to the actual skill/experience level.
The cutover level is based on the current skill/experience level with some randomness
thrown in. So as the skill/experience level increases, it takes more accumulated points
to reach the next level.
Combat gains points faster than straight training, and combat is generally required to
reach 70+ skill/experience levels.
Experience levels behave like skill levels with the one exception.
If the Experience level is higher than the best skill by more than 5, then a skill, based
on the group’s mission, might gains the accumulated points instead.
Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)

Most of the above remains totally relevant. The references to dedicated Training Group can now be disregarded as the original dedicated Training Group concept has been abandoned.

(B). For those of you who instead prefer to read only patch notes, note #10 of the Patch #2 readme provides similar information to that provided in the PMA.

(C). In simple layman terms, what this all means is that to efficiently train pilots, they should be set to train 100% on a single skill. Naturally there is a bit more to it than just that and the additionally complexity is well covered in many threads. Look for the usual suspects to get the good oil.

(D). Where this idea of a secondary training skill found in the OP emanates from, currently eludes me. A pilot can have a 70+ level in a certain skill set (say A2A) which might be referred to as his primary skill, and say a 60+ level in another skill set (say straffing) which might be referred to as his secondary skill but the training curriculum to achieve that outcome efficiently is concentrating on learning one skill set and then concentrating on the other.

(E). Combat provides a rather realistic class setting so that it is possible that a pilot who was not training will improve his skill/experience just from combat. Pilots on training missions will sometimes get jumped by the enemy, but this is infrequent.
---------------

A note on searching....I search by using a poster name, in this case Alfred....and you will find the information you are looking for rather quickly and also find many other hidden gems that you didn't know you didn't know.

search: pilot training
poster: alfred

you can also search using some of the developers, and many others.







< Message edited by Lowpe -- 12/23/2021 9:58:40 PM >

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 8
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/29/2021 6:08:07 PM   
clamel

 

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Joined: 12/9/2019
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Just more thanks to you guys. Think I spend more time reading threads and good advice than actually playing the game.
It's a beast of a game and in two decades folks have discovered a lot about it and it's deep details.
The forums looks to come up with new and old threads of interrest every day, hidden far inside with lots of "dust" on them.
I keep bookmark one after the other but still need time to get a grip of the game. It sure is so full of details and takes a long time to master, which is great.
Help is needed so once more thanks to hints and directions.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 9
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/29/2021 6:14:03 PM   
Nomad


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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

There are 'flying leaders' (asterisked in the leaders list) and there are non flying leaders; the latter don't get shot down - and replaced by some wood duck the exe picks.

As I said above, search for the Elf's comments on putting high experience leaders in combat air groups which are in training mode.


You can put your 'flying leaders' into group reserve and they will not fly, nor get shot down.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 10
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/29/2021 6:36:02 PM   
clamel

 

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Joined: 12/9/2019
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Searched and read TheElf on TRACOM.
Your note that leaders, when trying to replace, have an asterisk when they are flying leader, explain that asterisk. Didn't know that. Thanks

Still had some ideas on, or just haven't got the grip on, "dumping" the current leader and make another of the pilots in the AG the new leader.

Also the fact how much I "win" in replacing a -40 leader (none flying or flying) with a +60 leader. After all it cost +10 PP doing it.


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 11
RE: Top notch experience pilots helping AG in training ? - 12/29/2021 7:42:16 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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Air group leaders need high leadership to train the pilots' skills, more effectively

They need high air skill* to conduct operations, more effectively. (*I.E, the skill in the leader data, as opposed to the skill in the pilot data, which are different metrics.)

Fighter group leaders also seem to benefit from high aggression.

Bomber group leaders benefit from high inspiration because that helps with group morale (and high aggression might get them into trouble).

All of these things influence Random Number Generations that partly determine what happens in the course of a day. There is a post from Alfred somewhere that summarises how many threshold checks there are to see if a group carries out its orders, and if so how effectively in terms of aircraft numbers, followed by another series of checks and RNGs to see if multi-group strikes are co-ordinated or arrive over the target like Brown's cows.

Your 60 rated leader has better die-roll modifiers than the 40 rated one. The precise formulae have never been disclosed, but 60+ rated leaders are a considerable advantage compared to 40 rated ones.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 12
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