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Orbat Questions - 12/20/2021 11:26:14 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

First off I must say that I love the way Alvaro has designed the system. It is sleek, elegant, and quite fun.

However, the Orbats of the US and other nations are concerning to me. Even at the scale that I see, AKA reducing the actual number of counters required by consolidating the ships and such there are still quite a few discrepancies that I have noticed. As an example I will use the USN's Asiatic Fleet based out of the P.I.

Below is the orbat that I have drawn up to reflect the actual units assigned to the Asiatic Fleet on 7 Dec, 1941.

Edit: See below for full Orbat

< Message edited by Thorgrimm -- 12/21/2021 9:34:53 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/20/2021 11:40:17 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

See Below for Full Orbat.

First up are the Destroyer Divisions.

Destroyer Division Fifty-Seven - - Balikpapan, Borneo
Destroyer Division Fifty-Eight - - Tarakan, Borneo
Destroyer Division Fifty-Nine - - Manila, Pi

These DesDivs are not even the game. By the scale I see in it there should be a DD Group at those locations.

Then we have Patrol Wing Ten - - Cavite, Pi. Not in the game.

Now for the subs. We can see that SubDivs 21 and 22 are in the game. However, SubDivs 201, 202, and 203 are not in the game.

Then the Houston's Sqdn should be on the Western Viscayas Island.

My question is why these units are not in the game? Was if for play balance reasons?

Cheers, Thor

< Message edited by Thorgrimm -- 12/21/2021 9:35:35 PM >

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 2

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 3:40:50 AM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Keep posting the rest and I will take a look. I am a 1 man show and sometimes I miss things.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 3

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 10:52:18 AM

Nikel

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thorgrimm

First off I must say that I love the way Alvaro has designed the system. It is sleek, elegant, and quite fun.

However, the Orbats of the US and other nations are concerning to me. Even at the scale that I see, AKA reducing the actual number of counters required by consolidating the ships and such there are still quite a few discrepancies that I have noticed. As an example I will use the USN's Asiatic Fleet based out of the P.I.

Put some links to OOBs from the PWOE in the thread below, just in case they are useful.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5098248&mpage=1&key=�

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 4

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 5:22:59 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Alvaro, I most certainly will.

Right now I am doing up a complete US Philippine orbat for 7, Dec. Hopefully I will have it completed by today.

I hope I am not being too forward, but I would be happy to volunteer and help you with orbat research and creation. Including to any revision of the current orbats that you would like to have done.

The reason I am making this offer is that I like the WP games so much that, even with Aspergers, I am willing to overcome my fears and help to make a great series even better.

Nikel, I wish that I could. What I do is search the net for data, copy what I need, and then move on not saving the links. My orbats are individually handcrafted by me, and as such are not on the net. Or am I misunderstanding something?

As a question, is there a way to attach txt files to a post?

Cheers, Thorgrimm

(in reply to Nikel)

Post #: 5

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 6:29:36 PM

Nikel

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thorgrimm

Nikel, I wish that I could. What I do is search the net for data, copy what I need, and then move on not saving the links. My orbats are individually handcrafted by me, and as such are not on the net. Or am I misunderstanding something?

As a question, is there a way to attach txt files to a post?

Cheers, Thorgrimm

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nikel -- 12/21/2021 6:33:19 PM >

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 6

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 7:48:21 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Nikel, yeah I did misunderstand. Sorry about that. And yeah, those links are one of the many sites that I acquired my data from. What I do is research the data, then reorganize into a better format.

For example, those links provide excellent data on the units arrival and such, but is skimpy on other details that I like. So I have to cross reference many, many different sites. I usually try not to use any data unless I can verify it on at least three other sites.

And I must apologize for the first two links. The data was obtained from one of my older, and non-updated files. Hence why I am recreating them on the fly today.

Thanks for the info on the txt file uploading.

When I finish the Filipino Orbat I will post it as a txt file here.

Cheers, Thor

< Message edited by Thorgrimm -- 12/22/2021 11:52:54 AM >

(in reply to Nikel)

Post #: 7

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/21/2021 9:39:44 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

I finished the US Filipino orbat. If anybody notices any inaccuracies by all means let me know.

Comments are most welcome.

Cheers, Thor

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 2:42:40 AM

Lascar

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline

Thanks for the good work and contribution. The more accurate the order of battle the more immersive the game becomes.

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 9

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 5:49:08 AM

Meteor2

Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

Thanks for the work, Thorgrimm.
Hopefully Alvaro can use this to bis advantage. This is not WitP, but for the purpose of �immersion� he should use, what he can.

(in reply to Lascar)

Post #: 10

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 11:51:24 AM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Thanks for the compliments guys, they really inspire me.

With the scale that Alvaro has in the WP games it is easy to convert that orbat to his scale. For example, a Destroyer Division would be 1 DD Group in the game. If I have the scale correct that is.

As an example, the Destroyers Asiatic Fleet would convert as the following:

 Destroyers Asiatic Fleet - Manila, Pi - Cpt. H. A. Wiley
   1) Destroyer Division Fifty-Seven (DesDiv-57) - Balikpapan, Borneo - Lt. Cdr. E. M. Crouch
   2) Destroyer Division Fifty-Eight (DesDiv-58) - Tarakan, Borneo - Cdr. T. H. Binford
   3) Destroyer Division Fifty-Nine (DesDiv-59 - Manila, Pi - Cdr. P. H. Talbot

Cheers, Thor

(in reply to Meteor2)

Post #: 11

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 2:15:45 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
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My OOB was taken from WITP BTW.

Just get me a simple list of X # of DDs at Z hex and I will look into it. Otherwise I will decipher this data how I see fit and we will have this conversation again in a month when people disagree with my changes.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 12

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 9:28:22 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
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Alvaro, will do. Hopefully I can have it converted to WPP's format by tomorrow.

Cheers, Thor

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 13

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/22/2021 10:11:21 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Alvaro, I finished the Asiatic Fleet conversion. If you approve the format I will finish the Filipino orbat.

I just want to make sure that is the way you want the data before continuing.

Cheers, Thor

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 14

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/23/2021 6:51:55 AM

MarechalJoffre

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/18/2014
Status: offline

Thorgrimm, this is a great body of work. Perhaps you should consider uploading it to a website so it reaches a wider audience?

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 15

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/23/2021 8:19:24 AM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

Since we are talking OOB, here is a proposal to change the RN, RAN and RNZN navies in the Pacific 1941 scenario.

On map at start

UK:
Change UK. Hermes CVL Sqd from Carrier Operations 1941 to Carrier Operations 1939
Change UK. Revenge BB Sqd from Warships 1941 to Warships 1939
Add UK. Dorsetshire CA Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 14, 50
Add UK. Warspite BB Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 194, 94

New Zealand:
Add New. RNZN CL/DD Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 120, 4

Australia:
Add Aus. RAN CL/DD Sqd with Warships 1941 at hex 93, 6

* * *

Arrival January 15, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Indomitable CV Sqd with Carrier Operations 1940

* * *

Arrival February 14, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Change UK. Ramillies BB Sqd from Warships 1942 to Warships 1939
Add UK. Royal Sovereign BB Sqd with Warships 1939
Add UK. Resolution BB Sqd with Warships 1939

* * *

Arrival March 14, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Formidable CV Sqd with Carrier Operations 1940
Remove UK. Valiant BB Sqd arrival at this date (will come later)

*

Arrival August 10, 1942 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Glasgow CA Sqd arrival at this date. The Glasgow was a light cruiser by the way.

* * *

Arrival January 19, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Queen Elizabeth BB Sqd with Warships 1942

* * *

Arrival March 15, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Formidable CV Sqd since already on the map at this stage

* * *

Arrival March 21, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Add UK. Valiant BB Sqd with Warships 1942
Add UK. Renown BC Sqd with Warships 1942

* * *

Arrival November 21, 1944 (i.e. in the Deployment queue at start)

UK:
Remove UK. Leviathan CV Sqd (was never in the Pacific)
Remove UK. Ark Royal CV Sqd (was never in the Pacific)
Correct the spelling mistake for UK. Vengence CVL Sqd. The correct spelling is Vengeance CVL Sqd

For review...

_____________________________

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You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to MarechalJoffre)

Post #: 16

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/23/2021 1:30:38 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Alvaro, here is the US Filipino Orbat converted to WPP format. If you have any questions by all means, ask. If you are ok with this and approve it, I will begin working on the US West Coast.

MarechalJoffre, you should see my Orbat for 7 May, 1945 Western Allies, Europe... At the Bn level.

As an aside, I love to create Orbats. To me it is a hobby that I am very passionate about. I have a hard drive full of orbats that I have made. In point of fact, my very first post, anywhere on the net, was a Napoleonic Orbat on the Civ 3 forums at the civ-fanatics website.

As a question about Naval organization, is it CA's and above that have their own counter? And CVL's and above for carriers that have their own counters?

Cheers, Thorgrimm

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Thorgrimm -- 12/23/2021 1:35:35 PM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 17

RE: Orbat Questions - 12/23/2021 3:05:04 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

As a fun post and a sneak peak into what will be added, if Alvaro approves, is the USAAF 14th Air Force in May 1945.

BTW, the 14th was headquartered at Kunming China.

Cheers, Thorgrimm

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 18

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 12:43:58 AM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

I do not know if this is the right place, but since other orbats have been posted, I felt that it was ok. If Alvaro has any problems with my posting orbats here I will remove them ASAP.

My current project is an orbat for the US on 1 Sept, 1939. US orbats for 7 Dec, 1941 are a dime a dozen. Not so much for Sept 39. There may be a piece here and there, scattered in and around posts, but no definitive sources. So I thought I would create one.

So far I have the US Navy, Air Corps, and USMC pretty much nailed down. I am now working on the US Army ground forces. Attached below is the first draft of the US Army Orbat for the Hawaiian Department.

Comments are welcome, and if anybody sees an error by all means point it out!

Cheers, Thor

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 1:36:27 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

You can post them here. Just remember WPP is a corp level game. So small tiny details are abstracted into counters.

What I am looking for is grouping of ships at locations. If it is large enough I put a counter. If it is not I abstract it to a location as a group of these units.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Thorgrimm)

Post #: 20

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 2:31:09 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Alvaro, I will post the Asiatic Fleet for 1 Sept, 1939 next. In both formats. In detail, and in the format you can use for the WP games.

Just in case there are folks who would like to have all of the details.

Cheers, Thor

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 21

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 2:31:53 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Sent twice. Please ignore.

< Message edited by Thorgrimm -- 1/1/2022 2:32:28 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 22

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 2:46:14 PM

Remington700

Posts: 1057
Joined: 5/16/2021
Status: offline

Alvaro, while no where near the the quality of work Thorgrimm is completing there is an easy change that can be made with the Japanese "at start" forces.

There are two "12th Armies" at the start of both the 1941 scenarios. The correct one in China and what should be the "14th" sitting off the coast of Formosa - ready to invade the Philippines. While it is easy to manually change the name, now is probably a good time to correct the set up.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 23

RE: Orbat Questions - 1/1/2022 3:12:56 PM

Thorgrimm

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/18/2021
Status: offline

Here is the US Asiatic Fleet Orbat that I mentioned earlier.

Cheers, Thorgrimm

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Remington700)

Post #: 24