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Thinking of buying - 12/21/2021 2:58:10 PM

David Hansen

Posts: 116
Joined: 6/18/2010
Status: offline

Long time player of Strategic Command Europe...detailed, but not overwhelming.

How does War Plan compare..."seems" more detailed/moving parts with a lot more time needed to invest? True?

Does the time investment result in a greater appreciation/immersive grand strategy experience vs. SCE?

Which is "easier" to come to grips with...War Plan or War Plan Pacific?

TXS

PS-grew up with AH board games.

Post #: 1

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/21/2021 3:56:29 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

I am the developer. I will give you the differences.

More complex, focuses more on supply and logistics, feels like an AH board games. Much of the ideas come from World in Flames.

There are a lot of older wargamers that really like the game.

Immersive - depends on how you like to play. SC is more about local tactics, WPE is more about strategic planning.

WPE - Strategies are based on land based action. Naval is harder to mess up.
WPP - The opposite.

Both have equal depth in different ways but use the same system. WPP has more features as being the 2nd game.

I play SC3 on the side for fun at night to relax. I play my game also with human opponents to test.

SC and WP are both excellent games.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to David Hansen)

Post #: 2

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/21/2021 4:46:47 PM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline

I came from Strategic Command as well. I think Alvaro highlights a lot of the differences. I tend to find WP as somewhere in between SC and WITE/WITW (I never played World in Flames). The scope is closer to SC but the command/logistics feel more like WITE/WITW.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 3

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/22/2021 12:26:36 PM

David Hansen

Posts: 116
Joined: 6/18/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for the insights.

WIN7(x64) work?

(in reply to David Hansen)

Post #: 4

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/22/2021 2:05:45 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

I haven't heard any complaints. If you have Win7 may I suggest grabbing the free Win10 upgrade if it still exists. Win10 is going to no longer be supported.

Win10 also, supposedly, allows you to replace hardware without blowing up your OS.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to David Hansen)

Post #: 5

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/22/2021 2:24:40 PM

FirstPappy

Posts: 744
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: NY, USA
Status: offline

"Win10 is going to no longer be supported."

I believe above comment should have read that Win7 is going to no longer supported (actually support officially stopped in Jan of 2020). Although Win 11 is available I believe 10 will be supported for some time - unless MS gets really greedy. ;)

_____________________________

Windows 10 Home 64
AMD Ryzen 7 3700x 3.70Ghz Processor
32 GB Ram
RX580 w/8 GB
LG 32GK850F 2560x1440

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 6

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/22/2021 6:18:01 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Warpaln is a great game as long as you completely ignore the naval system. The naval system is really bad imho. That was the weakest part of SC as well.

I will admit the sub/Convoy Escort does work really well. So as long as you stick to very limited naval actions, you will not notice the major flaws in the naval system.

I have no idea about Warplan Pacific's naval system as I have avoided that game since the naval system in WP is so bad. Since the Pacific Theater of Operations is hugely naval, I don't want to experience what I have in Warplan, where naval is not that impactful to a game where it is hugely impactful.

(in reply to FirstPappy)

Post #: 7

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/22/2021 6:33:12 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstPappy

"Win10 is going to no longer be supported."

I believe above comment should have read that Win7 is going to no longer supported (actually support officially stopped in Jan of 2020). Although Win 11 is available I believe 10 will be supported for some time - unless MS gets really greedy. ;)

For the record

Windows 10 Home and Pro End of Life (EoL) is now slated to be October 14, 2025. Subject to change of course.

All previous versions of Windows are no longer supported. Which means your older versions of windows are no longer having security patches. So, if you have ANY versions of Windows other than 10, you have a major security risk.

I have no idea why people do not upgrade. Just because you have a software security system in place does NOT mean your data cannot be exposed or your system compromised.

As someone that works in IT security, what I posted here is not speculation or bad advice, it is facts.

(in reply to FirstPappy)

Post #: 8

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/23/2021 11:17:21 PM

boldairade

Posts: 722
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Warpaln is a great game as long as you completely ignore the naval system. The naval system is really bad imho. That was the weakest part of SC as well.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

And I have also had A LOT of trouble with Warplan's naval system.

But IMO, it isn't that the system is bad. It's actually quite elegant the more you learn about it.

The problem is, it's hard to learn about it, and merely playing(unless you are VERY observant) doesn't always help you get better.

Warplan's naval system is hard to learn. But having played MANY operational level wargames, I actually think it is one of the better, more realistic, and fun naval systems out there.

That said, I have lost a MP game because i just couldn't figure it out, and I am currently losing another one because I am just now getting the hang of it(a little)

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 9

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/24/2021 1:05:25 AM

generalfdog

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/18/2020
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Numdydar I would agree with you if you were talking about SC, and to tell you the truth before I fully understood the WP naval system I thought that also but after playing for awhile I would disagree and say WP and WPP have excellent naval systems

(in reply to boldairade)

Post #: 10

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/25/2021 3:18:59 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

If you could explain why you think the naval system in WP is so good it would be very helpful as I just do not see it.

The game currently allows Germany to send a major naval force around the North of England, down the coast of Spain, and rebase in North Africa without the Allies being able to do anything about it. No notice of enemy fleets leaving port, no spotting information while they sail around England, etc.

Then we have enough troop transports to supply several corps sailing from French ports also sailing to North Africa, just a few 100 miles away from a major UK base, again with nothing the Allies can do. All these ships just sailing along and the British fleet does nothing because they are not within 4 hexes of the ports these troops are landing at? What about the days spent sailing down the coast of Spain?

Look at the shipping the Allies needed to supply 3 division on D-Days. Equivalent to a corp in game turns. It is not like the British would have missed a fleet of that size (or bigger since more than one corp was transported). Yet again, the British fleet cannot do anything about it.

Seeing how the naval system in World in Flames and coming from how War in the Pacific AE works makes the system in WP look pretty bad. Any time major surface fleets can sail by other enemy surface fleets and/or major bases without the ability to interact with the moving fleet is a bad system.

A large naval zone of control would be very helpful to stop what the game allows you to do currently. So England might have a ZOC of 5 hexes? around it which would cost more for the Axis to move through. You could counter this ZOC with planes/ships of your own.

Ships at sea should also have a ZOC with bigger fleets have a larger area. So 1-2 ships would have 1 hex, 2-4 2 hexes, etc. Fleets with CVs should have the maximin range AND cause the enemy fleet to stop moving or automatically attack the moving fleet and have it lose a dot of movement. Or something else that would provide a better naval experience that what we have.

(in reply to generalfdog)

Post #: 11

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/25/2021 6:13:41 PM

*Lava*

Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
I have no idea about Warplan Pacific's naval system as I have avoided that game since the naval system in WP is so bad.

If you haven't played the game, how can you comment on it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Seeing how the naval system in World in Flames and coming from how War in the Pacific AE works makes the system in WP look pretty bad.

I would say you are comparing apples and oranges here. Monster games vs abstracted games... geez.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

If you could explain why you think the naval system in WP is so good it would be very helpful as I just do not see it.

I believe Alavaro is using WP Pacific to sort the naval side.

Personally I think WP Pacific is a pretty good simulation. Like the real war, you will need combined arms to win naval superiority and as the Allies, come up with a long term strategy to win the war. His last updates allowing the building up of logistical bases and limiting fleets to 6 units have also proved to be add another dimension in the war in the Pacific.

I really don't think you can compare WarPlan to WarPlan Pacific. Personally, I like WarPlan Pacific far better than WarPlan as you are far more constrained in your strategy and won't be facing armored zerging that, IMO, is a real game killer in WarPlan.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 12

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/26/2021 2:17:30 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
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I have no issue with abstracted games as long as they can provide some semblance of reality. Which WP does not do when it comes to the surface naval systems. I was comparing WP with two other games that do have good naval systems in the hopes that something from these types of games could be retrofitted to WP to improve the naval side of the game. I do not expect WP to become either of these types of games lol. Just using them as an idea factory is what I meant.

I will repeat that I think the convoy/escort system along with sub raiders works great in the game. I am solely discussing surface fleet behavior in this thread.

I was not commenting on WP-Pacific at all. Just was pointing out that if the naval system had been improved in WPP, I am unaware of it.

(in reply to *Lava*)

Post #: 13

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/26/2021 6:01:26 PM

*Lava*

Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
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I believe the naval action is far better in WP Pacific.

I think your idea about zones of control is an interesting one, however, in most cases, fleet engagements don't happen by random. A fleet action is very much a planned operation. In WP Pacific you are dealing with fleet engagements. Even at the submarine level, if you want to get good interdiction, you will need 5 sub "groups" working together. So the abstraction is at a higher level.

I believe in the Battle of the Coral Sea the 2 fleets past each other inside 100nms without spotting each other. The US was searching in the wrong direction and the Japanese weren't searching at all, waiting for land based air to make contact. Had the Americans been searching 360 degrees from their position, they would have destroyed 2 of the best Japanese fleet carriers in their fleet.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 14

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/26/2021 6:20:32 PM

stjeand

Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline

First off any Allied commander paying attention can see the German fleet set sail. Unlike WPP they can't hide.

Once they have done this they will be attacked quite a few times by a surface fleet and multiple carrier fleets.

Odds are you will get one hit on them before they get to Africa.

Then you will see that they can't even put all their ships in one port and resupply them. They have to split them to do so...when they do you use multiple carriers to strike at them in port.

When ever I have gotten the German fleet to Africa they have about a 3 month lifespan at best since the entire British navy moves in to take them out.

They need to run and keep running...stopping at all is the danger.

The more experience you get the more you will find ways to counter these things.
There is almost always a counter.

< Message edited by stjeand -- 12/26/2021 8:53:13 PM >

(in reply to *Lava*)

Post #: 15

RE: Thinking of buying - 12/26/2021 7:42:04 PM

AstroBlues

Posts: 398
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

I have Windows 11 and the game Warplan runs fine.

Ron

(in reply to stjeand)

Post #: 16