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Struggling with Odessa

 
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Struggling with Odessa - 12/27/2021 2:44:56 PM   
cain012

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/27/2021
Status: offline 		Hey guys, first-time poster here. I've been playing this game pretty regularly (I'm finding it way easier to understand than Wite1), playing turns while reading tips on this forum and trying to get further in the game. I'm having my best German-side game yet, up to turn 13 consistently wiping out 200,000 Soviets per turn (As of September I've inflicted 2.7 million soviet casualties at the expense of 280,000 of my own, though I've lost LOTS of planes due to forgetting to turn ground support off on a few turns), very close to Moscow (not making a big try for Leningrad as I sent PzG 4 to help in the center, so the AI stripped that front and now 18th Army is finally facing some resistance up there, and the line elsewhere is fairly thin as a result with lots of low-TOE cavalry divisions in the south), but I'm having a major issue with Odessa and I think it's screwing up my whole supply situation in the south.

I've attempted to "isolate" it using naval bombing, and reducing fort level by bombing the city. It seemed that zero freight was stored in the city just before I surrounded it, and no freight is being received, but right afterward stored freight was at 37 percent, the 58, then 83. It seems all due to air supply missions that aren't being intercepted, and then I'm faced with a 120,000 strong city fortress, fully supplied, at fort level 4. I attached all the siege artillery to 11th Army and used the whole formation exclusively to reduce Odessa (leaving my southern flank to both Romanian armies), but I can only maybe reduce it to fort level 1 after three turns of the whole army attacking, before pretty much every division needs to refit due to becoming depleted. City bombing is doing no damage.

My sea interdiction mission might be too wide: three hexes. Soviet interdiction in the sea provinces is equal to that of mine, but I don't know what that means for the success of my missions to be honest. Does that mean my bombers are being interrupted from their mission? Is it better to use "naval ops" on the unit cards instead? I've never done that.

I'm at the point of restarting yet another campaign to "do this right," but it seems like Odessa is just impossible to crack even with the strategies I've seen others post. Keep in mind, I'm a newer player so I'm not deep in the ways the various systems interlock for the air war. An elaborate response would be appreciated!
Post #: 1
RE: Struggling with Odessa - 12/27/2021 3:29:56 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		few general bits

1) port bombing is inefficient, and expensive, so I wouldn't go that way
2) fortifications aren't affected by bombing as such
3) it won't be air supply that is making such a difference, that is more of a hand to mouth source

Solutions

1) first concentrate all your naval air in the region (in the campaign move the Baltic units down)
2) take any LW Level bomber AOG and change the load out to mines (if not then a Ju-88 with lots of small bombs is pretty good)

This should give you the airpower, there is also a small Rumanian naval air AOG

3) naval patrol in both phases (you want to stop both movement and isolate), pick the sea hex 1 east and use a directive with 1 hex width
4) what you are aiming for is a level of interdiction 2+ the enemy
5) the 2+ is key as at that stage the hex is treated as 'isolated' - freight may still arrive (with losses) but its isolation you are trying for
6) isolated units rapidly build up morale maluses, so fight much worse, they don't take on replacements so never replace losses etc

after a couple of isolated turns you should see that massive stack starting to weaken.

A bit of feng shui in the combat system - if you make them fight, they will use up their local supply stocks all the quicker. In this case, a bit of port bombing is maybe useful as it makes them fire AA (this is also maybe a bit gamey ).

You are right in your force allocation, this is a job for 11A with lots of pioneers and heavy guns. As you've noted a failed attack is a grim business so yes, be able to rotate out or only attack every other turn. As long as you keep than naval air vice in place the Soviets weaken

On the subject of feng shui, the defenders may look stronger than they are. In part an attack will reduce fortifications (esp with heavy guns and pioneers) so that weakens them, but also they may not have the ammunition to fight effectively - but this is something you have to test the hard way.


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(in reply to cain012)
Post #: 2
RE: Struggling with Odessa - 12/27/2021 4:23:37 PM   
Alsadius

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

A bit of feng shui in the combat system - if you make them fight, they will use up their local supply stocks all the quicker. In this case, a bit of port bombing is maybe useful as it makes them fire AA (this is also maybe a bit gamey ).


Why is that gamey? I'm pretty sure "launch small attacks to use up the supplies of enemies with bad logistics" is a common tactic in modern military history.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 3
RE: Struggling with Odessa - 12/27/2021 4:47:01 PM   
cain012

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/27/2021
Status: offline 		This is very helpful, thanks. I wasn't aware that an interdiction of two or more right outside the sea hex is what is needed to isolate it. Should I start the process early? Like turn two? Or should I wait until I've surrounded the city on land?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: Struggling with Odessa - 12/27/2021 4:56:19 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alsadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

A bit of feng shui in the combat system - if you make them fight, they will use up their local supply stocks all the quicker. In this case, a bit of port bombing is maybe useful as it makes them fire AA (this is also maybe a bit gamey ).


Why is that gamey? I'm pretty sure "launch small attacks to use up the supplies of enemies with bad logistics" is a common tactic in modern military history.


matter of taste, what you are specifically doing is running low intensity bombing missions that have no goal but to use up ammunition. It became a common tactic in WiTW where bypassed German units in poor terrain take an age to reduce so this sort of attack ran down their supply stocks. The 'gamey' bit is the defenders can't chose to use AA or not, simply having the air mission triggers it - and at relatively low costs to the attacker. In contrast, launching say a small ground attack will at least cost the attacker something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cain012

This is very helpful, thanks. I wasn't aware that an interdiction of two or more right outside the sea hex is what is needed to isolate it. Should I start the process early? Like turn two? Or should I wait until I've surrounded the city on land?


I'd save your naval air assets till you have at least cut the rail lines, as long as they are intact more freight can arrive via rail than ever via the sea.


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Post #: 5
RE: Struggling with Odessa - 12/28/2021 12:02:35 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 79
Joined: 8/13/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cain012

This is very helpful, thanks. I wasn't aware that an interdiction of two or more right outside the sea hex is what is needed to isolate it.


Two or more HIGHER than the Soviets. So if they have an interdiction of 1, you need 3.

(in reply to cain012)
Post #: 6
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