Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/29/2021 7:12:12 PM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		I find the new supply restrictions in Russia cripple the Axis invasion. In a game I was playing, the Allied player pretty much stopped Barbarossa dead by September 41, even though I invaded early. Even in good weather, my forward line supply was in the 2-4 range and I was unable to reinforce or upgrade units. War in Europe has a much larger map than World at War, but pretty much the same force pool of units. So the Axis player is hard pressed to have units enough to conduct and maintain the invasion. The new supply rules make is virtually impossible for the Axis to remotely match initial historical successes of Germany in 41-42, let alone win. Anyone else experiencing this vs a live opponent with the same skill level? Going to try a few runs against the AI, but live opponents are what make this interesting.

I'm think they either need to scale back the supply restrictions or add to the available force pool for the Axis to be able to reasonably attack. Doesn't help that the Russians have level 3 infantry weapons and cheaper units than World at War. My opponent's Russian infantry was at level 2 before the first winter set in!
Post #: 1
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/29/2021 7:36:44 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Please do give it some more tests and try out deploying more HQs to see what impact they can have on the situation.

Just to clarify one point though: the USSR having to research up to level 3 in Infantry Weapons in order to reach parity with Axis units at level 2 isn't something that harms the Axis, quite the opposite.


_____________________________

Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware

We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/

(in reply to havoc1371)
Post #: 2
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/29/2021 8:28:13 PM   
bfcj


Posts: 121
Joined: 4/10/2018
From: Tampa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I think there is a not too uncommon misconception that Russian level 3 infantry are superior to level 2 infantry of other major powers.

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 3
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 2:03:34 AM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		So the Germans have to max out their logistics research and buy all the HQ's it can by spring of 1941 to have any hope of a decent showing initially? We'll see.

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 4
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 11:50:18 AM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		Certainly not.

I suggest you ask for a PBEM game against an experienced (Axis) player.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to havoc1371)
Post #: 5
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 12:01:56 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bfcj

I think there is a not too uncommon misconception that Russian level 3 infantry are superior to level 2 infantry of other major powers.




Absolutely. If played correctly the Axis Armies and Corps have 2-3* of experience by the time SU achieves level 3 Infantry and are FAR superior to level 3 SU Armies & corps. This is after the Allied player has watched the German Tanks, Armies & Bombers go thru level 1 SU entrenched Armies and Corps like a hot knife thru butter.

The Axis also have an overwhelming number of HQs when you include Italy & minors.

Finally the supply rules work great, they offer a realistic supply experience in a war game.



(in reply to bfcj)
Post #: 6
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 2:58:15 PM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		I am an experienced player, and I am playing an experienced player, and we switched over to my opponent playing the Axis to see how he fairs. I am playing a separate game now against the AI as the Axis, with maximum logistics investment and will build all the German HQ's by Barbarossa to see what happens. Definitely has changed the playing field in War in Europe. Not so much in World at War because of the much smaller map scale and shorter distances between cities.

< Message edited by havoc1371 -- 12/30/2021 2:59:49 PM >

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 7
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 4:21:42 PM   
Duedman

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/9/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Certainly not.

I suggest you ask for a PBEM game against an experienced (Axis) player.


This. If you do not manage to put the Axis player off balance before Barbarossa (denying Finland, invading Norway, overwhelming North Africa) an experienced opponent will cut really deep in 1941 + 1942.

Also I actually dont know what you mean by "new" supply restrictions?!

_____________________________

deutsch - Multiplayer gegen Herzog Sieg

english - Multiplayer vs Gilber

english - Multiplayer vs Rannug61


(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 8
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 5:43:46 PM   
archmache


Posts: 57
Joined: 10/2/2021
Status: offline 		Yeah one of the tips you can do is use the Italian expeditionary HQ and the Romanian HQ to sit on the city then move your GE HQ forward to boost supply. When I do Barbarossa I only have about 4 GE HQ and then I build more in fall of 41 to have ready by spring 42 for the push into whatever direction I'm going. Would rather not Max the HQ early when I could get 2 more tanks and the mechanized infantry.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 9
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 5:58:31 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: archmache

Yeah one of the tips you can do is use the Italian expeditionary HQ and the Romanian HQ to sit on the city then move your GE HQ forward to boost supply. When I do Barbarossa I only have about 4 GE HQ and then I build more in fall of 41 to have ready by spring 42 for the push into whatever direction I'm going. Would rather not Max the HQ early when I could get 2 more tanks and the mechanized infantry.



If you max out HQs before Rommel arrives you get an extra HQ. Same for the SU, need to max out HQs before the Siberians arrive, then you have 8 with no logistic research. Don't lose any tho can't buy them back.

(in reply to archmache)
Post #: 10
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 6:53:36 PM   
Duedman

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/9/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

If you max out HQs before Rommel arrives you get an extra HQ. Same for the SU, need to max out HQs before the Siberians arrive, then you have 8 with no logistic research. Don't lose any tho can't buy them back.


I actually would not advise trying this. Not sure, if it is even possible.
But even if - the benefits are not worth it. Getting the third Para? Yes! Maxing out Panzers b4 Afrika Korps arrives? Yes! Trying to max out Logistics for an extra HQ while u got Italian, Finnish, Bulgarian and Romanian HQs? No!

Just my opinion tho

_____________________________

deutsch - Multiplayer gegen Herzog Sieg

english - Multiplayer vs Gilber

english - Multiplayer vs Rannug61


(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 11
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 11:13:35 PM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		Last update, they made it harder to get supply in Russia for War in Europe and World at War. It doesn't have as big an impact (IMO) in World at War, because the map is more condensed, so distances between cities is less it is a much smaller "front line" to string out HQ's. In my AI test game, I've built every available HQ and German logistics is at "4", so there are 10 German HQ's in Russia, 1 Romanian, 1 Hungarian, with a Bulgarian on the way. October 41 and I mostly have decent supply. Before update, I could swing Barbarossa with 4-5 German plus the Axis allied HQ's. So a lot of mpp's that went to unit improvements and new units, now are going to making HQ's in time for Barbarossa. We're not there yet in my PBEM game, so we'll see how my Axis opponent does.

(in reply to Duedman)
Post #: 12
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/30/2021 11:16:03 PM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		I always get three paratroopers for the Germans by buying one before the others start arriving. Helps with France, then with Greece and taking Malta. Got to baby them, because if you lose one, you can't rebuild the third one once its lost.

(in reply to Duedman)
Post #: 13
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/31/2021 10:50:52 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Duedman


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

If you max out HQs before Rommel arrives you get an extra HQ. Same for the SU, need to max out HQs before the Siberians arrive, then you have 8 with no logistic research. Don't lose any tho can't buy them back.


I actually would not advise trying this. Not sure, if it is even possible.
But even if - the benefits are not worth it. Getting the third Para? Yes! Maxing out Panzers b4 Afrika Korps arrives? Yes! Trying to max out Logistics for an extra HQ while u got Italian, Finnish, Bulgarian and Romanian HQs? No!

Just my opinion tho




I don't play the Axis but I see no reason it wouldn't. How many HQs do the Germans have when the DAK arrives? Germans probably invest in logistics anyway so it may not be as important as for the SU.

I've probably done it 100-150 times as the SU and IMO its a key strategy in a successful SU campaign. I can guarantee it works. You have 8 HQS instead of 6 from '42 on and don't need logistic research as early. Why wouldn't you advise it for the SU or is it you didn't think of it?



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 12/31/2021 10:52:38 AM >

(in reply to havoc1371)
Post #: 14
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 12/31/2021 3:34:27 PM   
havoc1371


Posts: 212
Joined: 12/5/2017
Status: offline 		The amount goes up with your logistics level. January 1942 and I am at level 4 and I have 11 German HQ's on the map. Rommel in North Africa and the rest in Russia. Four Axis HQ's; Finland, Rumania, Hungry, and Bulgaria.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 15
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 1/1/2022 4:37:21 AM   
Duedman

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/9/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Duedman


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

If you max out HQs before Rommel arrives you get an extra HQ. Same for the SU, need to max out HQs before the Siberians arrive, then you have 8 with no logistic research. Don't lose any tho can't buy them back.


I actually would not advise trying this. Not sure, if it is even possible.
But even if - the benefits are not worth it. Getting the third Para? Yes! Maxing out Panzers b4 Afrika Korps arrives? Yes! Trying to max out Logistics for an extra HQ while u got Italian, Finnish, Bulgarian and Romanian HQs? No!

Just my opinion tho




I don't play the Axis but I see no reason it wouldn't. How many HQs do the Germans have when the DAK arrives? Germans probably invest in logistics anyway so it may not be as important as for the SU.

I've probably done it 100-150 times as the SU and IMO its a key strategy in a successful SU campaign. I can guarantee it works. You have 8 HQS instead of 6 from '42 on and don't need logistic research as early. Why wouldn't you advise it for the SU or is it you didn't think of it?




Sorry, I was mistaken. I somehow mixed it up with maxing out Logistics b4 Rommel arrives (which should be impossible).
Still I think maxing out HQs is not useful with Germany.
Its just more HQs than you need while you need all the troops you can get for Barbarossa. Can't do both without completely neglecting research.
Maxing out the number of tanks (and Tacbombers!!) before Rommel arrives has priority imho

_____________________________

deutsch - Multiplayer gegen Herzog Sieg

english - Multiplayer vs Gilber

english - Multiplayer vs Rannug61


(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 16
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 1/1/2022 12:15:22 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Duedman


Sorry, I was mistaken. I somehow mixed it up with maxing out Logistics b4 Rommel arrives (which should be impossible).
Still I think maxing out HQs is not useful with Germany.
Its just more HQs than you need while you need all the troops you can get for Barbarossa. Can't do both without completely neglecting research.
Maxing out the number of tanks (and Tacbombers!!) before Rommel arrives has priority imho



Given the number of Axis HQs Havoc mentioned that certainly seems to make sense. The SU doesn't have the luxury of logistics research early and it isn't as necessary with the supply if you have 8.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 1/1/2022 12:35:14 PM >

(in reply to Duedman)
Post #: 17
RE: New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play - 1/2/2022 3:40:43 PM   
Duedman

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/9/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: havoc1371

Last update, they made it harder to get supply in Russia for War in Europe and World at War.


I looked at the changelogs for the last 2 updates and can not find anything about this.
Can you provide a link?

_____________________________

deutsch - Multiplayer gegen Herzog Sieg

english - Multiplayer vs Gilber

english - Multiplayer vs Rannug61


(in reply to havoc1371)
Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> New supply rules in Russia cripple Axis play Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.031