Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on

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Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on

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Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 1:41:08 PM

Cavalry Corp

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Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
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Heavy art help with forts - ok

TALKING AXIS HERE

But they Nato symbol is not clear that its a heavy Art on any units as far as I can see (a common way was heavy bar on the left hand side of the symbol - so simple and easy) on any unit and the guns in many of the are 105mm? This is regarded as a heavy gun??

In general Nato symbols need a tidy up - esp please use the two wheels or something for all Mot units as again with artillery I am not sure its clear on any which are Mot and which are not - we should not have to see by the description as that cold be not correct anyway?

Please consider as you go to make the language of the units easier to read and makes better chrome for the game as well as easier to plan and so on.

Post #: 1

RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 4:14:21 PM

DrHiramTemple

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Joined: 1/11/2020
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Without knowing what unit you're looking at, it's possible the formation is supposed to have larger guns, but a lack of availability will sometimes cause them to take on a smaller than intended size. check the TOE page to see if that's the case. Also note that there's a pretty big difference between between guns/cannons and howitzers. The former are typically longer ranged and have more punch for a given caliber than howitzers, though for bunker busting I've generally assumed raw caliber is most important.

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 2

RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 4:18:32 PM

Gunner Garidel

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Joined: 10/21/2021
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Greetings! Generally speaking, based on my experience in the military, the arty must be 155mm/15cm (or heavier) to be considered 'heavy'.

< Message edited by Gunner Garidel -- 12/31/2021 4:20:11 PM >

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RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 4:38:12 PM

ShaggyHiK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner Garidel

Greetings! Generally speaking, based on my experience in the military, the arty must be 155mm/15cm (or heavier) to be considered 'heavy'.

For modern times? Perhaps, however, a heavy weapon in the classification of that time is based on the weight of the gun and the gun carriage on which it is installed, and not according to its caliber.

(in reply to Gunner Garidel)

Post #: 4

RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 4:38:38 PM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
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Thanks Guys - at the the topish of the screen when you click on the gun it says if its heavy - I assume that is the definition in game of what can be used to help break forts. In the manual it says heavy but not the calibre and the only place you can find that is at the top of the screen when you open the gun unit.

FYI 150mm is not regarded as heavy for helping with forts.

But the description of the unit may be heavy when it has 105mm or 150mm. This is from the start of the game of the game - have not looked at TOE upgrades and so on ( these units XXX SU do not seem to have upgrades)? Some units that are not called heavy in fact have heavy Guns like 615 Howitzer II has 210mm which are heavy. I want the game to use accurate and historical names but for the game I also would like the units more defined in correct symbols which tell 100 words.

It would be useful if a unit itself as a counter when heavy changed to a Nato style counter with the thick bar on the left then we can see quickly if its defined as heavy or not without having to click on all the guns. In addition it would be good to have counters defining if the unit is motorised or not as well rather than rely on the description of the unit which in the case of the guns is not always correct anyway . Its not a big issue built it does need a tidy up, it was a haphazard affair in WITE 1 as well.

If I could mod I would do a counters et with corrected Nato images but I cant - sorry.

< Message edited by Cavalry Corp -- 12/31/2021 4:47:29 PM >

(in reply to Gunner Garidel)

Post #: 5

RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 5:01:30 PM

Cavalry Corp

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From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
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Sorry I now read after looking round the map some 150mm are heavy and some are not to make things even more difficult - depends on the exact gun not calibre 150mm K39 is heavy but 150mm SfH18 is not.

At the moment I am allocating gun units based on description - now I have to look at every gun units guns and the exact model they have - ahhhhhhhhhh

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

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RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 12/31/2021 5:17:26 PM

DrHiramTemple

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Joined: 1/11/2020
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I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that any artillery would help reduce fort levels. It's just the heavier guns are much more effective in that regard.

There's also just the issue that weapon and formation classification varied from nation to nation, and don't always line up cleanly with the terms used in-game. A classic example is how soviet mechanized corps actually had more tanks than their tank corps. So I wouldn't put too much stock in the precise classification of a specific artillery piece.

Edit: oh yep, that's the cannon vs howitzer distinction kicking in. Good luck trying to keep track of all the varieties. It was reeeaaal fun in WitW, where every US unit was "Xth Artillery Regiment," regardless of caliber or type

< Message edited by DrHiramTemple -- 12/31/2021 5:28:03 PM >

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RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 1/1/2022 11:45:07 AM

jlbhung

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Joined: 3/10/2021
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We can see the WitE2's classification of artilleries in the production screen (extracted in left side of the pic below). German heavy guns are >=150mm.

There are some German artillery SUs with medium guns only (both in the unit and their ToE) but have "heavy" in their unit name. An example is the II/53rd Heavy Cannon Battalion, with the ToE - "41 K18 Heavy Cannon Battalion" (see the right side of the enclosed pic). I don't know if this is an unintentional error (e.g. mixing up the 105mm sK18 with the 170mm K18), or if it reflects the actual historical situation (I did a very casual search using google but it didn't help much). Maybe the developer knows more.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jlbhung -- 1/1/2022 11:50:57 AM >

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RE: Heavy Art units - 105mm ? correct symbols and so on - 1/1/2022 9:00:47 PM

MechFO

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The naming reflects German Army usage.

It does make sense in their system which differentiated between guns/howitzers that are mainly intended for divisional artillery (everything with "field") and guns meant for higher headquarters support.

Hence the 105mm heavy (silent "field") gun, while the much bigger Army level 15cm and 17cm were simply named guns, without "heavy", as there was never a lighter gun intended for Army level Artillery. Only the 21+cm guns (not howitzers!) received the "heavy" qualifier.

Modern Artillery classification doesn't help much since these days you nearly only have gunhowitzers.

That said, a naming convention that better reflects the actual game usage would make sense and could be done.

< Message edited by MechFO -- 1/1/2022 9:03:12 PM >

(in reply to jlbhung)

Post #: 9