The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe

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The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 11/4/2021 12:25:57 AM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

Gentlemen,
can anyone recount his hardest day as Luftwaffe?
If so, how bad was it?

I hope I have seen it today with 93 casualties, "call me Maier!" that didn't really work out even if British casualties pilled up to 41.
Stukas payed a damned high price as they this time attacked the radar stations Dunkirk & Whitestable, previous days had seen them knock out radar from the Worth to the Dover stations, so more or less also station on the South side of 11 Group. The high escort was totally out of position on these raids and one Stuka group suffer 18 casualties out 30.
Overall the morning attacks went not so good casualty wise, attacks were mainly North of the Isle of Wight area targeting Middle Wallop airfield and Eastleigh aircraft factory, along with attacks further East on Tangmere and other airfields.
Also Exeter airfield was target with the 110's being unable to provide a good escort or defend themselves and the bombers also unable to do much so that the airfield stays a problem for operationd in the direction of Cornwall.
But the afternoon went differently, 2 big raids with each +100 bombers and high escort of up to 150 Bf-109 attacked Kenley & Biggin Hill. This time the British were out of position, maybe finally the effects of the huge radar gap showing. The Kenley raid reached the target more or less unharmed while its escort keep constantly bouncing British fighters on the way to and from the target. The raid, believe it or not, had ZERO casualties while British suffered over 20 casualties. Biggin Hill raid was almost as successful with minor causalities and again good casualties inflicted on the British. Kenley & Biggin Hill seem to have been knocked out for a while.
Further in the North with Luftflotte 5 finally engaging too, casualties were not that bad as the He-111 of KG 26 attacked Scapa Flow escorted by the Bf-110 D-1 of I./ZG 76 and Scapa Flow took a beating.

But at the end of the day Luftwaffe casualties were unacceptable high, even when targets were mostly knocked out completely and the RAF also taking a bunch of casualties.

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Post #: 1

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 11/4/2021 7:18:31 AM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

I have notes referring to a player v player game about 10-11 years ago where I was the British.
After 10 turns my mate gave up the game after suffering 388 casualties to my 59 losses.
Radar was down at the end of turn 2, Woolston works 86% flattened on day 3, cloud cover prevented major raids on days 6 & 7 and the largest losses were on day 8 (radar came partially back online) when 21 RAF fighters were lost and heavy damage to the oil installations east of London whilst inflicting 115 losses to the LW including 34 He111 and 29 Ju88.
Day 10 went 10 to 43 in my favour and he threw in the towel.

Whilst playing the Germans against the AI I don't recall anything as bad as you have just had. I am 2/3 of the way through the Avalanche scenario and then its a planned revisit to the BoB as the Germans.

Mark

(in reply to BigDuke66)

Post #: 2

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 11/20/2021 10:40:32 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

How goes your campaign so far?
7 days in on mine, British only have 5 working CH sites. 2 in Wales, 1 near Scapa Flow, 1 on the Lincolnshire coast and 1 just below the Scottish border.
Losses are 235 LW to 162 RAF, I took a beating to the stukas on day 3 losing 39 of 75 aircraft lost that day. The last 2 days have both been in my favour for a total of 65 RAF losses for 45 LW.
Points 3-2-0 but the terror score is climbing nicely.
All 7 days have been weather friendly as in less that 40% cloud cover. For nearly 1/10th of the way through I am cautiously optimistic.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 3

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 12/16/2021 6:22:04 PM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

Pre-Xmas time didn't allow me much progress but Stuka casualties are still pretty horrifying. It is more than clear that a good escort isn't enough, unlike for bombers where a similar escort works good.
I will try to consider sweeps ahead of Stukas or try to make Stukas attacks in the wake of bomber attacks.

Diversionary attacks in the North are also no real option, operating from Denmark without escort is pretty ****ty.

Night bombing is currently only done with the KGr. 100 as leading group. Is night bombing without them of any use? Would like to knock out some targets in the industrial Midlands.

Overall progress is slow with AS 5 & Industry 1.

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RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 12/16/2021 10:01:14 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
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33 turns finished and starting to worry about which direction to take.
SE England looks like it has a bad case of measles with red spots everywhere. South and East Anglian coasts are similar. Only Northolt in 11 group remains as an undamaged and operating primary airfield. Duxford, Coltishall and Middle Wallop are also heavily damaged. All the South coast Spitfire factories are ruined and relocating. The 3 Hawker factories to the left of London are 2 at 50% and the largest at 90%. 4 out of the 7 ball bearing factories are destroyed, I can't get results on the 3 in Birmingham - will have to try something new.
I risked some daylight raids into Bristol with other raids preceding them and swamping the defences. Bristol Aeroplane and Bristol Kingswood along with Weston Super Mare AFAC left in ruins. 1 on each of 3 different days to get them.
Got lucky with a night raid on RR Derby and reduced it by 43%.
I have to give some credence to my recon flights as RAF total strength is declining, yet even launching massive daylight raids onto London to bring the RAF up for my Me109's to shoot down (am I falling into the same trap?) still does not get results. I have had AS up to 11 but those RAF fitters and riggers sure know how to patch up their fighters.
Points at 7-5-2 and I'm sure I can get the industry damage to 6. It will come, just a hard slog.
Fulmars, Gladiators, Sea Gladiators-- They are all around London, last throw of the dice.
717 RAF for 695 LW losses.

(in reply to BigDuke66)

Post #: 5

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 1/6/2022 7:42:51 AM

RichardL58

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Pre-Xmas time didn't allow me much progress but Stuka casualties are still pretty horrifying. It is more than clear that a good escort isn't enough, unlike for bombers where a similar escort works good.
I will try to consider sweeps ahead of Stukas or try to make Stukas attacks in the wake of bomber attacks.

Fighter sweeps going in over target at 1000 higher altitude and 1 min before the Stukas
works fine (but not always). Have the sweep using the same flight path as the bombers.

But mostly I have the Stukas unescorted, going in 10-15 min after a big bombing raid.

I have concentrated all my Stuka units exept StG 77 with Luftflotte 2 near the Dover
strait and using them primarily to knock out the radars between Pevensey and Whitstable.
StG 77 are used to knock out Ventnor, Worth and Sopley opening up a nice radar gap.

In my new BoB campaign I'm on turn 15. My Stuka losses are 37 planes (9 lost to AA), 30
air crews KIA/MIA 3 WIA after flying a total of 779 stuka sorties.

quote:

Diversionary attacks in the North are also no real option, operating from Denmark without escort is pretty ****ty.

Hit and run attacks on coastal targets going in at 500 feet, under the radar, works if the target has no or few ballons

quote:

Night bombing is currently only done with the KGr. 100 as leading group. Is night bombing without them of any use?

No you should always lead with one of the KGr 100 units

(in reply to BigDuke66)

Post #: 6

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 1/6/2022 5:26:47 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

Campaign over on turn 42 - LW victory.
I had hit 16 points for victory on turn 39, again on turn 40. Was wondering if it needed to be on a turn 31 multiple as on turn 41 I dropped to 15.
Massive effort on turn 42 took me to 18 points and victory was declared to the unsuspecting commanders!

My 109's got the better at higher altitudes but when flying home and at lower heights the RAF had the edge.
Both ball bearing and aircraft factories were in the red for critical damage. Hurricane output especially was destroyed with all frame plants either damaged beyond 50% or retooling to the type II.
404 RAF day fighters have been built, 880 destroyed.
Total losses, 893 RAF to 822 LW.
Engines and parts, I really couldn't disrupt to any great degree although I did get some success.
The RAF had all but abandoned day fighters in the North of Scotland to concentrate on the Midlands and SE but Fulmars, Gladiators and Defiants are not even a match for the 110's although they did have success when they got through to the bombers.

I found using the Stukas after a large bombing raid had drawn away the fighters worked best, probably hitting a coastal target. Lot of effort into getting time over targets to match paid dividends. If hitting a major city I found KGr100 was not required to find it and often used them independently against single factories - mixed results.

It was hard, very hard.

(in reply to RichardL58)

Post #: 7

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 1/6/2022 7:49:51 PM

RichardL58

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark dolby

Campaign over on turn 42 - LW victory.
I had hit 16 points for victory on turn 39, again on turn 40. Was wondering if it needed to be on a turn 31 multiple as on turn 41 I dropped to 15.
Massive effort on turn 42 took me to 18 points and victory was declared to the unsuspecting commanders!

My 109's got the better at higher altitudes but when flying home and at lower heights the RAF had the edge.
Both ball bearing and aircraft factories were in the red for critical damage. Hurricane output especially was destroyed with all frame plants either damaged beyond 50% or retooling to the type II.
404 RAF day fighters have been built, 880 destroyed.
Total losses, 893 RAF to 822 LW.
Engines and parts, I really couldn't disrupt to any great degree although I did get some success.
The RAF had all but abandoned day fighters in the North of Scotland to concentrate on the Midlands and SE but Fulmars, Gladiators and Defiants are not even a match for the 110's although they did have success when they got through to the bombers.

I found using the Stukas after a large bombing raid had drawn away the fighters worked best, probably hitting a coastal target. Lot of effort into getting time over targets to match paid dividends. If hitting a major city I found KGr100 was not required to find it and often used them independently against single factories - mixed results.

It was hard, very hard.

Win on turn 42 ...good job. I won on turn 57 last time I played BoB two years ago.

But this time I plan to play along a bit longer, to test the italians and see what kill number my aces could get. To get high ranking (german) aces in BoB seems harder than in BTR.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 8

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 1/7/2022 6:05:21 AM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardL58

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark dolby

Campaign over on turn 42 - LW victory.
I had hit 16 points for victory on turn 39, again on turn 40. Was wondering if it needed to be on a turn 31 multiple as on turn 41 I dropped to 15.
Massive effort on turn 42 took me to 18 points and victory was declared to the unsuspecting commanders!

My 109's got the better at higher altitudes but when flying home and at lower heights the RAF had the edge.
Both ball bearing and aircraft factories were in the red for critical damage. Hurricane output especially was destroyed with all frame plants either damaged beyond 50% or retooling to the type II.
404 RAF day fighters have been built, 880 destroyed.
Total losses, 893 RAF to 822 LW.
Engines and parts, I really couldn't disrupt to any great degree although I did get some success.
The RAF had all but abandoned day fighters in the North of Scotland to concentrate on the Midlands and SE but Fulmars, Gladiators and Defiants are not even a match for the 110's although they did have success when they got through to the bombers.

I found using the Stukas after a large bombing raid had drawn away the fighters worked best, probably hitting a coastal target. Lot of effort into getting time over targets to match paid dividends. If hitting a major city I found KGr100 was not required to find it and often used them independently against single factories - mixed results.

It was hard, very hard.

Win on turn 42 ...good job. I won on turn 57 last time I played BoB two years ago.

But this time I plan to play along a bit longer, to test the italians and see what kill number my aces could get. To get high ranking (german) aces in BoB seems harder than in BTR.

Agreed. I had 2 aces with 5 victories each and quite a few on 4. Remember the Italians are only in the scenario for 1 week so to test them it would be better to go for the '41 scenario.
In a BTR campaign I am also playing I have a 51 victory ace on turn 229. But also have a couple of Rumanian and Hungarian pilots into the low 20's.

(in reply to RichardL58)

Post #: 9

RE: The Hardest Day - BoB '40 Luftwaffe - 1/7/2022 7:20:43 PM

RichardL58

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark dolby

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Agreed. I had 2 aces with 5 victories each and quite a few on 4. Remember the Italians are only in the scenario for 1 week so to test them it would be better to go for the '41 scenario.
In a BTR campaign I am also playing I have a 51 victory ace on turn 229. But also have a couple of Rumanian and Hungarian pilots into the low 20's.

I stopped my recent BTR game after patching to 1.06.47, losing 63 experienced fighters shooting down 52 unescorted B-17 was definitly a weird result ...even shooting down a single straggler could cost two Fw 190s (I reloaded and tried the same raid again with similar results).

So I'm waiting for the new patch, then I'm going to restart the game from scratch.

But in mid january 44 my top 5 guys had 41, 38, 37, 33 and 31 respectivly (all german pilots)

...I even had a nightfigther ace wit 26 kills but he did a night crash landing and died

(in reply to mark dolby)