Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/5/2022 9:52:22 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Its a popular strategy now for the Axis to max out motor torpedo boats to block Allied supply, 100 pts each, its cheap and good to block with. Obviously a gross misuse and gamey strategy. In the game the speed boats never lose supply and have limitless range, of course the motor torpedo could have never had close to that range or used for this strategy. Motor torpedo boats should have zero effect on supply lines.

You have to give these guys credit if there's a gamey trick they'll find it
Post #: 1
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/5/2022 11:21:00 PM   
archmache


Posts: 57
Joined: 10/2/2021
Status: offline 		what are they using them to block supply? harbors in med? One Naval Bomber should take care of them pretty quick

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 2
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/7/2022 10:46:00 PM   
dhucul2011

 

Posts: 564
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline 		I originally advocated for torpedo boats to be restricted to within two hexes of a coastal hex, still think it would be a great change.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 3
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/8/2022 12:05:26 AM   
Mithrilotter

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 2/18/2016
Status: offline 		Currently, the US can only deploy torpedo boats to the Pacific is by traveling over open ocean. I wish that torpedo boats could be transported by ship like land units and like they were historically transported. As I understand it, the game engine won't allow it.

I don't use Japanese torpedo boats in a gamey manner. They are my best ASW ships. I deploy torpedo boats in an area from Southwest of Japan to Singapore. My Japanese Maritime Bombers patrol convoy lines and attack subs. Torpedo boats guard convoy lines and finish off what's left.

(in reply to dhucul2011)
Post #: 4
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/8/2022 12:11:19 AM   
Mithrilotter

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 2/18/2016
Status: offline 		I forgot that this is War in Europe. I use my German torpedo boats protect the Norwegian Convoy line and the Baltic Convoy lines from Allied subs. I don't have the German MPP's or research points to spare on ASW tech. Torpedo boats have a high sub attack without any tech bonuses.

Actually, torpedo boats were excellent convoy raiders.

(in reply to Mithrilotter)
Post #: 5
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/8/2022 12:02:54 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mithrilotter

I forgot that this is War in Europe. I use my German torpedo boats protect the Norwegian Convoy line and the Baltic Convoy lines from Allied subs. I don't have the German MPP's or research points to spare on ASW tech. Torpedo boats have a high sub attack without any tech bonuses.

Actually, torpedo boats were excellent convoy raiders.



Ok that's fair. I have no problem if they block supply close to land. My issue is further out the map on the high seas. It would make sense if motor torpedo boats had a limited range from land, maybe it could increase with research.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 1/8/2022 12:03:40 PM >

(in reply to Mithrilotter)
Post #: 6
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/8/2022 4:51:07 PM   
Bavre


Posts: 299
Joined: 12/5/2020
Status: offline 		Sorry, I still don't get it. How exactely are they used to block supply? Do you happen to have a screen shot?
The only thing I thought they were good at is sub hunting, provided someone scouts for them. Sure, they are cheap, but they die easily to about any type of surface ship or air strikes. Even subs gut them if they get the drop on them.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 7
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/8/2022 9:02:44 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Go to the manual and look under convoy raiding.

(in reply to Bavre)
Post #: 8
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/9/2022 9:07:33 AM   
The Land

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 2/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Go to the manual and look under convoy raiding.


Convoy raiding and supply are two very different things!

Though I'd also be surprised if they were useful convoy raiders, they're not going to last long against British cruisers.

_____________________________

1985 Red Storm mod - Beta testing!

Always wanted to play a "Cold War goes hot" scenario? Come and join in!

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 9
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/9/2022 11:15:10 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Go to the manual and look under convoy raiding.


Convoy raiding and supply are two very different things!

Though I'd also be surprised if they were useful convoy raiders, they're not going to last long against British cruisers.



I'm sorry in the game one is supply and the other convoy raiding. Of course in the real war they were called supply. Sorry this confused so many people.

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 10
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/9/2022 3:26:50 PM   
Bavre


Posts: 299
Joined: 12/5/2020
Status: offline 		Ah, OK.

Still MTs are imho the worst possible ships for that task (slow and squishy).

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 11
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/13/2022 8:51:12 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Yes slow but very cheap and deploy quickly, they block supply (sorry convoys) as well as a destroyer. I'm just arguing that they shouldn't be able to block supply far away from land.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 1/13/2022 9:00:43 PM >

(in reply to Bavre)
Post #: 12
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/13/2022 11:40:38 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Yes slow but very cheap and deploy quickly, they block supply (sorry convoys) as well as a destroyer. I'm just arguing that they shouldn't be able to block supply far away from land.



You mean 'interdict convoy lines'...not port supply, right? This thread had me confused of your meaning.
Well MT's are slow and easily killed. Sending new ones way out seems a chore...but killing them should be easy with cruisers. I know MT's can fight pretty well against destroyers..but they are better hunting subs then clipping convoy lines. If someone is doing that...so be it. Swak em'.

_____________________________

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBUHYdk7tcejmU5k9cOw

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 13
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/14/2022 11:37:57 AM   
Bavre


Posts: 299
Joined: 12/5/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Yes slow but very cheap and deploy quickly, they block supply (sorry convoys) as well as a destroyer. I'm just arguing that they shouldn't be able to block supply far away from land.



Yeah, it is really unrealistic to have them in the middle of the atlantic. Probably a game engine limitation (or can certain types of ships be prohibited from entering certain hexes?) and their small movement range seems to be the substitute for their lack of seaworthiness. But gameplay and balancing wise ... well what OCB just said.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 14
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/14/2022 1:20:21 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		MTBs do have twice the risk of Destroyers of being damaged in storms at sea, and the maximum damage they can suffer is also doubled.

_____________________________

Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware

We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/

(in reply to Bavre)
Post #: 15
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/14/2022 1:26:16 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

MTBs do have twice the risk of Destroyers of being damaged in storms at sea, and the maximum damage they can suffer is also doubled.



I stand corrected.

Thank you Bill.

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 16
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/15/2022 1:06:23 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		The more I think about the MTB issue raised the more I am inclined to think sending then out deep in the Atlantic is gamey after all. Perhaps a house rule in an MP match restricting them to their non-cruise range? e.g. 10 AP/hexes.

I was fooling around with a saved test hotseat...and saw it was more realistic for Patrol Boats to be restricted to inshore waters. Also...the sea worthiness issue is factored in..but these boats were small and couldn't be on station indefinitely out 100's of miles in the Atlantic.

A house rule like this I would to agree to anyway.

_____________________________

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBUHYdk7tcejmU5k9cOw

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 17
RE: Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats - 1/15/2022 11:37:47 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Thank you OCB.

I think the game takes a reasonable stab at with Bill's comments but if you are in the South you have a Spanish port to replenish.

Part of the issue is the mechanics of the Naval Component of the game. Not only do they "interdict convoys" but they are a cheap way to block for the subs, you can block with a few. The Allies find the Axis subs on the convoy lines with subs and destroyers so if you block with MTB the sub or destroyer will run into it first. The experienced sub can either then escape or if the Allies choose to attack the MTB with surface ships the Axis subs can attack the Allied surface ships.

Also the Axis can have some supporting surface ships and attack the destroyers that run into the MTBs

Yes the MTBs can be taken out fairly easily ( still takes at 2-3 hits) but they are very cheap deploy quickly and cause very un realistic havoc in the high seas.

EDITED: To compound the problem MTB don't lose supply when interdicting convoys, so you have these small boats on the high seas into perpetuity.

One solution would be the MTBs lose 1 supply every turn (whether interdicting or not) or two (if possible) and have no naval cruise.





< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 1/15/2022 11:54:04 AM >

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Gross misuse of motor torpedo boats Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.656