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Reconstituted unit location - 1/9/2022 7:13:05 PM   
LOK32MK

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/19/2015
Status: offline 		I am working on a WW2 scenario that uses fixed locations for reconstitution. Reconstituted units should appear at the formation’s first track one objective. I do not have a Reentry Point.
It was my understanding if that fixed location was occupied, Land units will not be Reconstituted.

However, even if when the fixed location (i.e., the formation’s first track one objective) is occupied by the enemy, units still reconstitute in nearby locations.

I must be missing something.
Any help would be appreciated


Manual states in 9.1.8. Replacements
If no friendly Supply sources are located in Urban or Road locations, or if the Scenario specific Reentry Point is not friendly-controlled, Land units will not be Reconstituted.
If no friendly Supply sources are located in Urban or Road locations, or if the Scenario specific Reentry Point is not friendly-controlled, Land units will not be Reconstituted.

Bob also explained it very well in his interface article editor:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4387350
(Page 3) “Fixed x, y” specifies that they will reconstitute at the location of their formation’s first track one objective."
Post #: 1
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/10/2022 2:41:24 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I've experienced the same thing where units are set to reconstitute at the first objective location. I'm unsure of the specifics; whether the alternative arrival hex has to be within a certain distance as well as in friendly hands.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 2
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/11/2022 8:31:02 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		The only additional info I could find is:

Omitting the Reconstitution Point will cede control of where to reconstitute to the computer – which may put them anywhere, randomly.

If 'Fixed x, y' is opted for the unit, the unit will reconstitute in the x, y location. That location is set by the first objective of Track One of the unit’s formation. So, by controlling where that objective is set, you can control exactly where the units of each formation reconstitute.

So it looks like you guys are saying this is incorrect. Maybe 'Fixed x, y' will allow units to Reconstitute at 'x,y' unless it is not friendly, in which case such a unit will Reconstitute 'near' 'x,y' ?

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 3
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/11/2022 8:31:55 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

if the Scenario specific Reentry Point is not friendly-controlled, Land units will not be Reconstituted.


I think this is referring to the 'R' location, not the location of objective 1.

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 4
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/12/2022 1:10:41 PM   
LOK32MK

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/19/2015
Status: offline 		It certainly looks like sPzAbt653 said the 'Fixed x, y' will allow units to Reconstitute at 'x,y' unless it is not friendly, in which case such a unit will Reconstitute 'near' 'x,y' and "Land units will not be Reconstituted" refers to the 'R' location, not the location of objective 1.
I might make a test scenario to recheck it
thank you

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 5
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/13/2022 5:10:35 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		If you Test, please let us know the results so that we might change the Manual to be more correct. Thanks

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 6
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/13/2022 8:21:21 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

If you Test, please let us know the results so that we might change the Manual to be more correct. Thanks


In particular, is the arrival hex set when the unit is added to "Expected Reinforcements" or only when it arrives on the map; i.e. if the arrival hex changes ownership while the unit is waiting, does it get stuck?

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 7
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/15/2022 10:40:07 AM   
LOK32MK

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/19/2015
Status: offline 		I am more confused now than I was before I started down this path.
I made two very simple test scenarios.
v1 has a fixed reconstitution hex but no re-entry point
v2 has a re-entry point only
Blue units were tested for reconstitution in both scenarios.

After several (but not exhaustive) tests it seems that:
For v1 (fixed reconstitution point but no re-entry point):
if a unit was disbanded or eliminated it will still reconstitute in a "nearby hex" if the reconstitution hex is occupied. For this particular scenario the "nearby hex" was x-2 (same y). When the "nearby hex" was also occupied the disbanded or eliminated unit would still reconstitute in a different nearby hex (with different x and y).
Bottom line: with a fixed reconstitution hex but no re-entry point disbanded or eliminated units will reconstitute in nearby hexes. I am not sure if there is a hard-coded limit to the definition of "nearby hex" (x +/- delta_x?, y +/- delta_y?)

For v2 (re-entry point only)
if a unit was disbanded or eliminated it will still reconstitute in a "nearby hex" if the re-entry point hex is occupied. However, when the "nearby hex" was also occupied, the disbanded or eliminated the unit did not reconstitute in a different nearby hex (as in the v1 case).



Attachment (1)

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 8
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/15/2022 11:54:13 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		So it sounds like a unit's Reconstitution Arrival cannot be prevented by occupying a few hexes. Maybe by occupying a lot of hexes?

Because Reconstituted Units are meant to represent units that are Reformed after taking such heavy casualties so as to no longer be effective, or units that were scattered due to combat results, it does seem reasonable that they would reconstitute 'near' a target hex that is enemy occupied, first to where it became ineffective, second to where the Scenario Designer set them to arrive.

Thanks for running some tests

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 9
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/15/2022 12:00:47 PM   
LOK32MK

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/19/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

So it sounds like a unit's Reconstitution Arrival cannot be prevented by occupying a few hexes. Maybe by occupying a lot of hexes?


Yes, it certainly seems that way.
My (uneducated) guess is that the reconstitution hex has to do with supply, but I have no data to back this up.

As long as designers & players know then we can deal with it.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 10
RE: Reconstituted unit location - 1/15/2022 2:21:51 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Were any of the nearby hexes enemy controlled. They don't have to be occupied by enemy units. Also reconstituted units are a little different. If things don't work as described in the manual it could well be that changing the code over the years has made how this works afu.

9.1.9. Reinforcements and Withdrawals

Land Units
Most Land units will always appear at the location
given in the Formation Report, if that location is
available. A location is only considered to be available
if it is either friendly-controlled and not at the stacking
limit or located on a map edge. If for some reason the
location is not available, units scheduled to appear on
a map edge will instead appear at some other available
location along the same map edge, within two hexes.
Units scheduled to appear away from a map edge
will only enter when the location becomes friendly controlled
and not at the stacking limit.


9.1.8. Replacements
...
When units are Reconstituted, there is a one to
four week delay in their appearance. Reconstituted
Air units appear at Airfields. Other Reconstituted
units will appear at a Scenario-specific point (which
should be mentioned in the Scenario Briefing) or
near friendly Supply sources in Urban or Road
locations. If no friendly Supply sources are located
in Urban or Road locations, or if the Scenario specific
Reentry Point is not friendly-controlled,
Land units will not be Reconstituted.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to LOK32MK)
Post #: 11
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