Shipping unload rates

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Shipping unload rates

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Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 6:49:18 AM

LGKMAS

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I thought I had this figured out but browsing some of the old replies, I wondered whether I had fully understood it.

Let us assume I have a Size 2 Port. No Naval Support units there.
The daily unload max for cargo is 6250.
I have a Cargo TF of two xAKs with cargo loads of 3050 each. That is a total of 6100 cargo. That is below the unload capacity of the port so at first glance, they should be able to unload in a day.

HOWEVER, the unload rate for cargo is 200 per 12 hr phase. I understand that to mean 200 per ship docked or 400 per one day turn per ship?

Therefore, the two ships can only unload 200 twice a day per ship, so a total unload of 400 x 2 = 800. Thus it will take eight days to fully unload. I believe this reflects the limited berthing capacity and lack of cargo handling gear at smaller ports.

Or to put it another way, same port, size 2,if I had one ship of 6150 tons cargo, It would take over 15 days to unload cargo. However, if that same amount of cargo was delivered using 41 LCMs, each carrying 150 cargo = 6150, then the LCMs are each unloaded individually, they do not total the max docking size for the port, they do not exceed the port handing limit per day, they are each carrying below the unload rate of 200 units per phase and they could be unloaded and on their way in a day? Yes, I know 41 may be too many for a barge TF but I am using the number to make a point.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Post #: 1

RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 7:06:06 AM

BBfanboy

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Yes, the ship unload limit is usually the restricting factor. Pierside unloading is 400 points per day but if they cannot dock, the port will send lighters for them to unload into, but the rate is cut in half - 200 points per ship per day.

Your example with the LCIs is a good one to illustrate how to use the full ops capacity of the port, but LCIs have a different unload rate from xAK cargo ships. At a level 2 port landing craft are better off unloading over the beach.

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 7:19:36 AM

LGKMAS

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Thanks for that. Nice to know I have been doing the right thing for a change.
All those little xAKs with loads of 1000 and 1700 are well worth protecting for that reason.
Re LSTs? Are they best used as Transports for these small loads or as Amphibious? I am always in two minds with them.

Also, I have assumed that the Naval Support troops add their support to raising the total unload capacity of the ports, rather than increasing the individual unload ability of the ships? So in this case, a size 2 port, with a cargo unload capacity for the port of 6250 would have the total unload capacity , if I added a Naval support unit of 50, increased by 50 x 10 = 500 so now can unload a max of 6750 per day?

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 8:56:45 AM

LGKMAS

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Actually, don't discount lighterage. Now you have given me some numbers, I did a few calculations.
Take Townsville. Port of 7 at max development. Assuming a std Cargo ship for cross pacific is 6500 tons docking. (YMMV!) With a port of 7 the max docking is 16 of these sized ships.
but they can only load/unload across the dock 1400 x 16 or 22400 a day.
Yet the capacity of the port is 72800. That leaves 50400 spare a day.
If lighterage is 50% of the over the docks capacity, then Townville can lighter load/unload ships at 700 a day per ship.
That means any of the smaller ships at 1000 or 1750 can be loaded even while at anchor within 2-3 days. In fact , by my back of an envelope calculations, I could be lightering up to 72 smaller ships at 700 a day while my 16 big ships are loading/unloading dockside at 1400/day.
Actually, now you have drawn my attention to lightering numbers, which I had no details on before, this may solve some of my bottlenecks. Thanks again.

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 8:58:23 AM

BBfanboy

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Use LSTs for amphib ops when they are happening, but in between you can use them to supply dot bases and very small ports. For amphib invasions I usually load heavy-equipment heavy units on LSTs - tanks and artillery for example. They will unload in one day.

I believe the NS squads increase the imputed size of the port - something like 30 squads raise it one level - check the manual to be sure how many. Raising a level usually means an increase of 200 cargo points more unloaded per day, but IIRC, there is a considerable jump in unload amount at level 7. Again, the manual unload table should show that. Point is, I don't think it is a linear formula where the increase in NS squads can be multiplied by a number to show the increase in unload rate.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/11/2022 11:36:31 PM

LGKMAS

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I don't recall anything about increasing the size of the port by using Naval Support squads. I did re-read the manual last night and came across this. 6.3.3.2.5

� Naval Support. Naval Support may increase troop and cargo load
rates only. Naval Support increases the rate at which a given
ship can be loaded but cannot improve the total cargo handling
limitations of the port. Naval Support adds 10 points to the Troop
and Cargo load ability, for each Naval Support squad present.

So the Naval Support Squads do not increase the capacity of the port, merely speed up the load/unload process.
The thing that causes me some confusion is the statement bolded. How do you specify a Given Ship?
Or do they increase the load/unload ability of the whole port?
50 Naval Support Squads means 500 extra load/unload. But is this a turn or a Phase?
And does it apply to all docked ships?
And if it doesn't, then can you select which ship?
And how do you do that?

< Message edited by LGKMAS -- 1/11/2022 11:39:22 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/12/2022 12:26:46 AM

RangerJoe

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You specify a given ship by only having that one ship loading and/or unloading.

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/12/2022 4:14:11 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

I don't recall anything about increasing the size of the port by using Naval Support squads. I did re-read the manual last night and came across this. 6.3.3.2.5

� Naval Support. Naval Support may increase troop and cargo load
rates only. Naval Support increases the rate at which a given
ship can be loaded but cannot improve the total cargo handling
limitations of the port. Naval Support adds 10 points to the Troop
and Cargo load ability, for each Naval Support squad present.

So the Naval Support Squads do not increase the capacity of the port, merely speed up the load/unload process.
The thing that causes me some confusion is the statement bolded. How do you specify a Given Ship?
Or do they increase the load/unload ability of the whole port?
50 Naval Support Squads means 500 extra load/unload. But is this a turn or a Phase?
And does it apply to all docked ships?
And if it doesn't, then can you select which ship?
And how do you do that?

My apologies - I must have been thinking of the port size effect of NS for purposes of arming ships with ammo/mines/torps.

Given ship probably means ship of a given type. NS does not affect just a single ship. I have numerous supply convoys loading at San Francisco and they all benefit from the bountiful naval support there.

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 12:40:27 AM

LGKMAS

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Hmm, seems you and ranger Joe have different ideas on what NS means.
Anyone else got any ideas on how this works? Stopping unloading of all ships docked simply to hasten the unloading of one ship seems a clumsy way to use NS. And and so many ships to load that it looks strange to stop all ships loading simply to add a few thousand tons to just one ship. As you say, San Francisco has so much naval support (451!). and it is static so cannot be moved elsewhere! And as a size 9 port, it has a total load capability of 150500. So stopping all other ships from loading to allow one ship to load 900 (base rate) plus 4510 (NSx10) = 5410 per phase (I am assuming NS load rate is per phase) just does not make sense. 9000 extra tons for one ship is better that 20 ships all loading 1800 tons a day for a total of 36000 tons? WTF!
So does anyone have any ideas whether or not NS adds extra load rate to only one ship? If not, how is it used? Extra to every ship in port? Divided amongst all ships docked in port?

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 12:58:12 AM

LGKMAS

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Okay,
reading the manual yet again, under 9.3.3.2 it says
Once the daily cargo/fuel limits are reached, no more cargo
handling/fueling can take place that day. Cargo limit can be increased by Naval Support (extra
stevedoring) but not fuel limits.
and a few paras later
Naval Support Adjustments for:
� Cargo Handling = plus 10 for each undamaged Naval Support Device Present

But as I posted in the first post here. under 6.3.3.2.5

� Naval Support. Naval Support may increase troop and cargo load
rates only. Naval Support increases the rate at which a given
ship can be loaded but cannot improve the total cargo handling
limitations of the port. Naval Support adds 10 points to the Troop
and Cargo load ability, for each Naval Support squad present.

So which is correct? 6.3.3.2.5 says total loading capability cannot be improved by Naval Support, yet 9.3.3.2 says different!!
Is there an errata I have not found on this?

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 1:16:39 AM

RangerJoe

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You asked how to help just one specific ship, I told you how to do that. There is no way to otherwise designate which ship gets the help.

NS will help the individual ships load/unload faster but not the overall ability of the port to load/unload more cargo.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
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Post #: 11

RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 2:05:10 AM

LGKMAS

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Okay, my bad!
So is the NS split between the ships docked or does every ship get the NS support?

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RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 2:40:04 AM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Okay, my bad!
So is the NS split between the ships docked or does every ship get the NS support?

Without actually seeing anything written about this, I would presume that it gets spread around.

But here are a couple of interesting threads - including one on damage to port size . . .

Problem Unloading (No cap_and_gown)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2536564

Evaporating LCUs

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2629075

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 13

RE: Shipping unload rates - 1/13/2022 8:02:24 AM

LGKMAS

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Interesting Posts!
Just as a BTW, my Excel skill set has vastly improved because of the game. Working out optimal loads and adding shipping times, modified by load limits, loading and unloading rates, and working on worst case scenarios! it doesn't take long before you realise that loading a large Cargo TF in a middle level port takes far too long to accomplish and you really need to look at the smaller ships for the smaller ports. There aren't that many higher level ports on the map that can unload large TFs.
It was tempting in the early stages, and I admit one of my very early mistakes, to send a large 40+ ship Cargo TF carrying 240,000 tons from San Francisco to Luganville because it needed only a few escorts to give it a large ASW rating and it moved a hell of a lot of supplies up to the front, where it was badly needed.. However, once you get to Luganville and realise that you can only dock 84,000 tons once the port has been maximised, and it isn't early on, and more importantly, you can only unload 1200 tons / day per ship and it maxes out at 54500 per day, so at 40 ships in the TF, that is limited to 1362 per ship but you cannot unload more than 1200 tons per ship, that you realise even if all started to unload at once, it will still take 5 days per ship to unload and because you cannot dock, it is lighterage so it will take 10 days to unload, and then you have to look at dividing the TF so at least some can dock and so it goes on.
Number crunching is a skill modern Military understand only too well. And this game makes sure you understand Logistics, rather than battles. Damn I like it!

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 14