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7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES

 
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7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 8:27:53 PM   
Tcao

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/10/2013
Status: offline 		Can anyone please put more insights into this rule?

quote:

Air operations by aircraft carriers are limited if the aircraft carrier is in a base hex. Aircraft launching search, CAP or strike Missions from a carrier in a base hex will only launch 50% of the normal amount they would have launched. If the CAP is reinforced by fighters on the ship due to the raid being spotted in time, only 50% of the fighters on the ship will reinforce the CAP.


Does this mean if I put mini-KB into HEX 106,185 Rabaul (even it's not dock into the port) it will get penalty?
Post #: 1
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 8:35:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcao

Can anyone please put more insights into this rule?

quote:

Air operations by aircraft carriers are limited if the aircraft carrier is in a base hex. Aircraft launching search, CAP or strike Missions from a carrier in a base hex will only launch 50% of the normal amount they would have launched. If the CAP is reinforced by fighters on the ship due to the raid being spotted in time, only 50% of the fighters on the ship will reinforce the CAP.


Does this mean if I put mini-KB into HEX 106,185 Rabaul (even it's not dock into the port) it will get penalty?


That depends upon what you have in the "mini-KB" when you put it in the base hex. CVEs should not be affected . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Tcao)
Post #: 2
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 9:25:47 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline 		Simply put. Yes.

As Joe notes above CVEs are not impacted by this limitation, they operate normally from base hexes like Rabaul.

My understanding is this reflects the larger carrier's need to be running, ideally into the wind, to perform timely launches of fully mission loaded aircraft. WWII CVs did not have catapults as do modern CVs. Sitting in a port hex it's assumed they are not out "running" into the wind, therefore limiting the ability to launch aircraft in the air quickly or at least in a time span that would allow them to assemble and still have enough fuel to get out their potential range(s).

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 3
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 10:44:40 PM   
huda0816

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/7/2021
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Does this also apply to carriers that are patrolling the base hex?

(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 4
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 10:49:45 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816

Does this also apply to carriers that are patrolling the base hex?


Yes, unless they are CVEs . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to huda0816)
Post #: 5
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/12/2022 11:42:17 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		This also allows CVE TFs to accompany the invasion forces into the target hex and provide direct air support while the Fleet Carriers stand off to provide a different kind of air support.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 12:13:20 AM   
Tcao

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

Simply put. Yes.

As Joe notes above CVEs are not impacted by this limitation, they operate normally from base hexes like Rabaul.

My understanding is this reflects the larger carrier's need to be running, ideally into the wind, to perform timely launches of fully mission loaded aircraft. WWII CVs did not have catapults as do modern CVs. Sitting in a port hex it's assumed they are not out "running" into the wind, therefore limiting the ability to launch aircraft in the air quickly or at least in a time span that would allow them to assemble and still have enough fuel to get out their potential range(s).


Thank you , that makes sense, A fleet CVBG TF needs a large space to maneuver. If there is an island on its course, then it got to change the course to avoid collision. Time that can be used for launch/recovery A/C will be reduced.

So here are some other questions, I guess the term "base hex" needs more clarification
1, if KB parked at Hex 177,106 Niihau on Dec 7th 1941, does it suffer any penalty? At the beginning of the Campaign, Niihau is a green dot that don't have any port or airfield construction.
2, if KB parked at Hex 182, 109, is there any penalty? Hex 182,109 is a land hex but don't have any potential to build a base on it.

Thx

(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 7
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 1:12:00 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		A base hex is any hex with a base in it. If there is no base even if there is land, it is not a base hex.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Tcao)
Post #: 8
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 6:42:48 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A base hex is any hex with a base in it. If there is no base even if there is land, it is not a base hex.


I know the rule but reading this brought up some questions/observations not previously realized.

Dot bases don't count, no base.
Does size matter were a large ship/tf can't dock anyway. Say size 1/2.
Should be just naval bases so what a about just A/F built on coast (if there are any).

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 9
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 11:14:22 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The rule originally applied to all coastal hexes and was changed.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 10
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 12:22:16 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A base hex is any hex with a base in it. If there is no base even if there is land, it is not a base hex.


I know the rule but reading this brought up some questions/observations not previously realized.

Dot bases don't count, no base.
Does size matter were a large ship/tf can't dock anyway. Say size 1/2.
Should be just naval bases so what a about just A/F built on coast (if there are any).


So, according to you, a dot base is not a base. That is news to me.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 11
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/13/2022 12:25:24 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A base hex is any hex with a base in it. If there is no base even if there is land, it is not a base hex.


I know the rule but reading this brought up some questions/observations not previously realized.

Dot bases don't count, no base.
Does size matter were a large ship/tf can't dock anyway. Say size 1/2.
Should be just naval bases so what a about just A/F built on coast (if there are any).

Are you asking about ship size/can't dock in reference to your Air Combat TF topic, or starting a new one on loading and unloading cargo and transport ships?

Air bases count the same as ports for the limited operation of CVs and CVLs.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 12
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/14/2022 6:55:01 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


So, according to you, a dot base is not a base. That is news to me.


Sorry, should have been a question mark. But further to my question, there's no base in a dot hex its just a place where one can be built, basically just a coastal hex.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 13
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/14/2022 8:19:52 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I searched the changes file and couldn't find anything on the change from coastal to base hexes. However, like Hans, I recall it used to be coastal. I didn't check vanilla WITP, though.

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Post #: 14
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/14/2022 12:08:04 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


So, according to you, a dot base is not a base. That is news to me.


Sorry, should have been a question mark. But further to my question, there's no base in a dot hex its just a place where one can be built, basically just a coastal hex.



I used to think the same thing.

A Dot base is still a Base.

It just has a 0 level airfield and and a 0 level port.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 15
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/14/2022 12:08:38 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I searched the changes file and couldn't find anything on the change from coastal to base hexes. However, like Hans, I recall it used to be coastal. I didn't check vanilla WITP, though.


It wouldn't surprise me if we are both remembering WITP.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 16
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/14/2022 2:01:52 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		Uncommon Valor had airstrikes halved if the carrier was in a base or a coastal hex.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 17
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/15/2022 6:58:11 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I used to think the same thing.

A Dot base is still a Base.

It just has a 0 level airfield and and a 0 level port.


OK! I suppose its a coding thing.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 18
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/16/2022 12:29:23 AM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline 		Tcao,

Hans noted below there was an update that allowed full CV ops in coastal hexes...I missed that note or have just forgotten that detail over time. My practice is to only do CV TF ops in full ocean hexes. Takes any ambiguity away and seems more historical, which is the mode I like to play the game in. For coastal/invasion/base hex ops I do use CVEs, which as Joe noted CVEs are not penalized in these hexes.

Lots of notes above about what constitutes a base. That "may" also vary based on the version you are playing. I play LST's Bottlenecks exclusively, which is a further variant on the DBB mod. Bottlenecks has lots and lots of dot bases, many more than the stock version. I've always considered any dot or otherwise built up named base a "base". If you're looking for the game mechanics, my belief is these are all considered "bases" by the game mechanics (as Joe notes).

(in reply to Tcao)
Post #: 19
RE: 7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES - 1/16/2022 8:29:03 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Yea, I missed the coastal hex change too...and been around a long time.

Thing is, this game keeps on having things to learn still.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 20
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