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Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 7:35:17 PM

littleike

Posts: 159
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

Post #: 1

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 7:57:33 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

I have much the same feeling. I have never heard of not being able to post pinup pictures.
Our AAR titled "Pinups in the Pacific" many years ago featured many pinup pictures and there
was never anything said. It seems that some new moderator has decided to impose his morality.

(in reply to littleike)

Post #: 2

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 8:14:47 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

There's new rules in play. Don't remember what they are called. But it is a little over board. No pun inteneded....GP

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(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 3

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 8:22:56 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

(in reply to littleike)

Post #: 4

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 8:43:07 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

To be fair, Edmon probably doesn't have any professional discretion on this one. In fact, professional discretion seems to be an historical artifact these days. It seems to be considered elitist or something.

Speaking of professional discretion, are any of you watching the Novak Djokovic saga unfold? Might need to buy some popcorn today.

_____________________________

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(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 5

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 9:01:34 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

MM, whilst that (bold bit) is true, it does raise two questions, about which many PHD theses probably already have been, and many more will be, written:

1) If the objectifying items (*sexist, and racist as well) are the subject of legitimate historical study - items such as propaganda posters, or aircraft nose art - because they form part of the history of the era under study, is that an acceptable academic endeavour?

2) To what extent should we impose, today, the social standards of our era, on the study of previous historical era, and the actions of the persons of those times? This is sometimes I think referred to as the "black armband" view of history.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 6

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 9:51:04 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

Yep, agreed.

There's a difference between posts that are like "this is what they used to paint on the noses of the planes" and "look at these jugs" when referring to a picture of a woman. It's far easier to just say "don't post those things" than it is to try to enforce a distinction.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 7

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/13/2022 10:02:59 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

MM, whilst that (bold bit) is true, it does raise two questions, about which many PHD theses probably already have been, and many more will be, written:

1) If the objectifying items (*sexist, and racist as well) are the subject of legitimate historical study - items such as propaganda posters, or aircraft nose art - because they form part of the history of the era under study, is that an acceptable academic endeavour?

2) To what extent should we impose, today, the social standards of our era, on the study of previous historical era, and the actions of the persons of those times? This is sometimes I think referred to as the "black armband" view of history.

I'll start off with noting that this is a misdirection - the issue raised in this instance is not academic treatment of these topics but their use in the vernacular (if you will), and in a non-academic context.

1) Of course.

2) There is a distinct difference in my mind between presentism as an issue in literary and historical analysis and examining history from our own moral perspective. History needs to be understood in its own context, there needs to be thinking directed at it in relation to modern values.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 8

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 12:24:16 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

MM, whilst that (bold bit) is true, it does raise two questions, about which many PHD theses probably already have been, and many more will be, written:

1) If the objectifying items (*sexist, and racist as well) are the subject of legitimate historical study - items such as propaganda posters, or aircraft nose art - because they form part of the history of the era under study, is that an acceptable academic endeavour?

2) To what extent should we impose, today, the social standards of our era, on the study of previous historical era, and the actions of the persons of those times? This is sometimes I think referred to as the "black armband" view of history.

I'll start off with noting that this is a misdirection - the issue raised in this instance is not academic treatment of these topics but their use in the vernacular (if you will), and in a non-academic context.

1) Of course.

2) There is a distinct difference in my mind between presentism as an issue in literary and historical analysis and examining history from our own moral perspective. History needs to be understood in its own context, there needs to be thinking directed at it in relation to modern values.

MM, you always think a psychologist - sometimes you need to think like a lawyer

.

If we apply your answer to my question 1, in principle, to the study of professionally photographed pin up posters of attractive women, in, say, the war years, shouldn't we acknowledge that despite what view we have about them by today's standards -as sexist or gender profiling or whatever- it's still a valid historical study. And remains a piece of factual history - unless we go all 1984 and start re-writing the past.

Case in point: In AE, what picture do you see in the save game selection screen? Should that now be excised from the game in accordance with this new diktat?

_____________________________

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(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 9

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 12:46:49 AM

tolsdorff

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

(in reply to littleike)

Post #: 10

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:06:04 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You'll get little sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

Routine objectification of women has certainly been one of the more disdainful elements of this wider community, and it's certainly not an attractive or welcoming feature. Not from a business perspective and not from a social perspective either.

This is a step in the right direction but there's certainly more to be done.

MM, whilst that (bold bit) is true, it does raise two questions, about which many PHD theses probably already have been, and many more will be, written:

1) If the objectifying items (*sexist, and racist as well) are the subject of legitimate historical study - items such as propaganda posters, or aircraft nose art - because they form part of the history of the era under study, is that an acceptable academic endeavour?

2) To what extent should we impose, today, the social standards of our era, on the study of previous historical era, and the actions of the persons of those times? This is sometimes I think referred to as the "black armband" view of history.

I'll start off with noting that this is a misdirection - the issue raised in this instance is not academic treatment of these topics but their use in the vernacular (if you will), and in a non-academic context.

1) Of course.

2) There is a distinct difference in my mind between presentism as an issue in literary and historical analysis and examining history from our own moral perspective. History needs to be understood in its own context, there needs to be thinking directed at it in relation to modern values.

MM, you always think a psychologist - sometimes you need to think like a lawyer .

If we apply your answer to my question 1, in principle, to the study of professionally photographed pin up posters of attractive women, in, say, the war years, shouldn't we acknowledge that despite what view we have about them by today's standards -as sexist or gender profiling or whatever- it's still a valid historical study. And remains a piece of factual history - unless we go all 1984 and start re-writing the past.

Case in point: In AE, what picture do you see in the save game selection screen? Should that now be excised from the game in accordance with this new diktat?

I'd forgotten about that, actually. I've used art mods for years now that give a darker theme overall.

Again, of course. Pin up posters are a part of the cultural history of the war. It is appropriate that such an image features within a work of digital art (let's leave "are games art" to one side) in an appropriate context, the same as similar material in other works of art (painting, films, other video games).

The inclusion of such an image is not a free pass for individuals on the forum to indulge in the gender views of that period, nor to indulge in behaviour that is (at best) unseemly and contributes to an unfriendly atmosphere for video game players who are female.

Let's not try to dress that up as "a valid historical study", as what we've seen on the forum is a million miles from that.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 11

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:13:23 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

1. I do believe that the overall approach to the Matrix forums is aimed at being family friendly. Do you really feel that sexual content has a place in such a setting.

2. Did you read that link before you posted it? I ask as the conclusion covers that the inquisition had a relaxed approach to such sexual imagery vis a vis prohibited books. I wonder if you can expand on what point you were trying to make, as I seem to have missed it, and it gives the appears of having put "inquisition sexual images" into Google Scholar and mindlessly posting the first link you came across.

3. I'm not quite sure how you can take the view that maybe not objectifying women on the forum represents taking a backward step, but would be interested to hear your thoughts.

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 12

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:17:31 AM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

Who is Edmon anyway?

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(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 13

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:24:26 AM

Bo Rearguard

Posts: 492
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Who is Edmon anyway?

He's a member of the Matrix Games Staff who recently locked the OT...Things to ponder thread.

< Message edited by Bo Rearguard -- 1/14/2022 1:25:41 AM >

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(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 14

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:26:03 AM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

I clicked and looked at his profile and I didn't see where it said he was a moderator anywhere?

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)

Post #: 15

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:40:49 AM

Bo Rearguard

Posts: 492
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

I clicked and looked at his profile and I didn't see where it said he was a moderator anywhere?

I think having the power to lock a thread is pretty much the definition of a moderator.

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 16

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:41:21 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

I clicked and looked at his profile and I didn't see where it said he was a moderator anywhere?

The General forum . . .

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(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 17

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:44:29 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

1. I do believe that the overall approach to the Matrix forums is aimed at being family friendly. Do you really feel that sexual content has a place in such a setting.

2. Did you read that link before you posted it? I ask as the conclusion covers that the inquisition had a relaxed approach to such sexual imagery vis a vis prohibited books. I wonder if you can expand on what point you were trying to make, as I seem to have missed it, and it gives the appears of having put "inquisition sexual images" into Google Scholar and mindlessly posting the first link you came across.

3. I'm not quite sure how you can take the view that maybe not objectifying women on the forum represents taking a backward step, but would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Let us face it, if it weren't for human sexual activity then there would be no family at all. In fact, the human race would go extinct.

I changed my avatar picture from Roza so I would not run afoul of the censors. But this nose art was allowed:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5121230

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 18

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:46:54 AM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

Guys,

I believe it was made clear that pin-up shots of women, whatever the era they are from, are not allowed.

This thread will be locked. If you have done this anywhere else, I heartily suggest that you delete such posts, as repeat offenders will be getting official warnings.

I don't want to be the bad guy my friends, so please don't force my hand.

You are welcome to make a new social thread, but keep it clean.

Thanks,
Edmon

Hey Edmon! Come and get me:

Attachment (1)

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(in reply to littleike)

Post #: 19

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 1:47:30 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Well, I just saw this, so let me answer a few questions.

First, Edmon is one of our forum moderators, though he may not have been in this sub-forum much.

Second, yes we did decide that threads like the old "Australian Beauties" in the General Discussion forum (and pin-ups here) were inappropriate in terms of being family friendly and fostering a welcoming environment for women in the wargaming community. You can see a pretty big discussion about all that which happened in this thread in the General Discussion forum: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5082641

In that regard, Edmon was acting to enforce our forum rules on a high level of decency.

If you read through the thread linked above to the end, I think you'll get a good understanding of all the different points of view on this, including my own point of view.

I might not have locked that thread entirely, but Edmon was acting within the rules in stating that pinups are against the rules and encouraging you to start a new thread focused on pretty much anything else.

The goal of all this is to make sure this is a family friendly, apolitical and high decency place where all who are interested in these kinds of games can share discussion and camaraderie relating to these games.

The forum rules themselves, which all agree to when registering to post here, are as follows:

Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers

If you agree to abide by our rules below and the Terms of Use which can be found at http://www.matrixgames.com/termsofuse.asp, please click on the Forum Agreement box and then press the Ok button, which will enable you to register on this message board. If you do not agree to these terms, press the Cancel button.

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< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 1/14/2022 1:56:09 AM >

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 20

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 9:18:45 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 21

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 9:54:39 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples

Links and examples please. At this time I do not accept that that is a frequent feature of this forum.

Also, if you are referring to the occasional usage of the contraction "Japs" that sometimes is seen here, you are going to have to do a lot of work to convince those of us, who had relatives sadistically murdered by them in POW camps, that there is anything wrong with that.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 22

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 10:40:53 AM

littleike

Posts: 159
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.
.......

Here you are wrong. If you feel you are part of a community every action vs others forumites that seems to you unfair or disproportioned can hurt.
I don't want to go on further, simply i see that my balance of valours dating from the sixties is no more in line with what is actual politically correct, so
i prefer to not post due to the real risk to hurt inadvertitely someone.

I excuse if i could have done the impreession i am a lion of the keyboard. I think this is the best forum i have seen ever and i will surely continue to read and buy from here.

I can only say that if you search the evil where it is not you will sooner or later meet it indeed.

< Message edited by littleike -- 1/14/2022 3:03:09 PM >

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 23

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 12:35:23 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 24

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 2:17:19 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples

Links and examples please. At this time I do not accept that that is a frequent feature of this forum.

Also, if you are referring to the occasional usage of the contraction "Japs" that sometimes is seen here, you are going to have to do a lot of work to convince those of us, who had relatives sadistically murdered by them in POW camps, that there is anything wrong with that.

I find it fascinating and rather revealing that your justification for using language widely considered as derogatory in the modern world is events that happened nearly eighty years ago.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 25

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 3:02:28 PM

Panjack

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

I appreciate the changes Matrix is imposing on their forums.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 26

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 3:04:37 PM

anarchyintheuk

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline

-1

(in reply to Panjack)

Post #: 27

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 3:11:43 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

This forum is mental as anything.

Started out with pin-up girls
Woh-oh, the nips are gettin' bigger

(in reply to Panjack)

Post #: 28

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 4:25:39 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In that regard, Edmon was acting to enforce our forum rules on a high level of decency.

OK, so the forum has to adhere to a "high level of decency". What about the games that Matrix sells and profits from? For example, consider Distant Worlds: Universe. This game is still for sale at the rather high price of 59.99, and it features a number of "playable races", one of which is comprised entirely of scantily clad women (see below). Given these new Matrix "decency" standards, do you plan to modify that game or remove it immediately from your list of offerings? Also, are there plans to review the rest of your catalogue and to similarly ensure that Matrix does not have other games from which it profits and which contain images that deviate from these high decency standards?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 29

RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 4:31:54 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/14/2022 4:38:18 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 30