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Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:28:19 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Hi!

Until today I had no idea why longterm forum members suddenly are leaving the forum just to find out there is a discussion going about some new or not so new forum rules which seems to turn into some kind of forum massacre. PLEASE! May I ask you to at least not lock all those threads? I'm not trying to dispute the forum rules (if I agree with them or not doesn't matter here) but if you keep scaring all those people away that have been on the forum for over a decade you can as well bury the game.

I'm not asking you to allow pictures that are against your policy, personal attacks or the like. But looking at the first page of the forum seeing no less than 6 threads being locked is totally odd to be honest. This is not a childish Pokemon forum but it seems to turn exactly into this direction.

I'm sure Matrix, or Slitherine or whoever runs this forum and owns the rights on the games at some point realized that much of WITP's and WITP AE's success (and I mean commercial success) is directly related to the community. Be it the forum, be it betatesters, be it the forum members that were part of the development of WITP AE and the many mods. Now if you act like this and scare away at least halve a dozen forum members that have been here for 10 years or way longer you are also going to kill a lot of what is part of this game and surely also the reputation of Matrix Games, or Slitherine if that's the boss company here now.

While I ask the forum members to calm down I also ask the moderator(s) to think about what is going on here at the moment. If this is going across the cliff, you managed to ruin a forum that is all but racist, sexist or whatever politically incorrect. It seems you don't seem to realize what kind of special place this is or how many game forums do you know that have so many long term members pretty much showing up daily or several days a week?

The AAR section on this forum has probably earned Matrix more money than any paid marketing action. It's really sad that this seems to be thrown out of the window in such a short time span. For example, 17 years ago I stumbled over a computer game called War in the Pacific, saw the price of 100 USD and just thought LOL, are they crazy? Game prices back then was like 40-50 USD at best. I was still curios about the game and what did I do? I was reading on the forum and in fact it was this that made me buy the game in the end, following AE too of course. It was not your marketing that made me buy this game, it was the forum actually and I'm sure there are still people nowadays that feel the same, so many years later.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 1/15/2022 12:32:50 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:41:53 PM   
mattj78


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/19/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Hi!

Until today I had no idea why longterm forum members suddenly are leaving the forum just to find out there is a discussion going about some new or not so new forum rules which seems to turn into some kind of forum massacre. PLEASE! May I ask you to at least not lock all those threads? I'm not trying to dispute the forum rules (if I agree with them or not doesn't matter here) but if you keep scaring all those people away that have been on the forum for over a decade you can as well bury the game.

I'm not asking you to allow pictures that are against your policy, personal attacks or the like. But looking at the first page of the forum seeing no less than 6 threads being locked is totally odd to be honest. This is not a childish Pokemon forum but it seems to turn exactly into this direction.

I'm sure Matrix, or Slitherine or whoever runs this forum and owns the rights on the games at some point realized that much of WITP's and WITP AE's success (and I mean commercial success) is directly related to the community. Be it the forum, be it betatesters, be it the forum members that were part of the development of WITP AE and the many mods. Now if you act like this and scare away at least halve a dozen forum members that have been here for 10 years or way longer you are also going to kill a lot of what is part of this game and surely also the reputation of Matrix Games, or Slitherine if that's the boss company here now.

While I ask the forum members to calm down I also ask the moderator(s) to think about what is going on here at the moment. If this is going across the cliff, you managed to ruin a forum that is all but racist, sexist or whatever politically incorrect. It seems you don't seem to realize what kind of special place this is or how many game forums do you know that have so many long term members pretty much showing up daily or several days a week?

The AAR section on this forum has probably earned Matrix more money than any paid marketing action. It's really sad that this seems to be thrown out of the window in such a short time span.


I bought this game because of your last aar which i followed for a long time and i agree with your comment I'm playing nomad now in my first pbem game and he has been fantastic with his advice and time now matrix has run him off with a few other veteran's i think they went way overboard should of been handled much better considering some of the stuff they market I have been on the fence about buying wite 2 i own quite a few matrix titles now I wont be parting with any more money matrix just lost a very good customer

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 2
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:43:56 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline 		Yes, I agree.

A lot of people nowadays see problems wherever there were not that many to begin with.

And if there were, it could have been handled a lot better. Current events feel like a troup of rabid dogs came rushing in, smashing everything in its path. CErtainly not the claimed soft-touch.

It is not a personal attack to tell an admin that he is not suited at all for the job. It's constructive criticism right? Edmon managed to alienate at least half the forum here in 3 days time. Mostly by banning Kull. That he is not unbanned yet, does not speak well.

I fear that when all is said and done, there won't be many decent forumites left.



(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 3
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:49:59 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		What, Kull is banned? The Hammer of Matrix is upon us!!!

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 4
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:54:20 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

What, Kull is banned? The Hammer of Matrix is upon us!!!


Yes, the kindest person on the forum, and that's saying a lot.
for a week or so I believe.

Better hide, you never know where the Hammer will strike next!

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 5
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 12:58:49 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Yes, I agree.

A lot of people nowadays see problems wherever there were not that many to begin with.

And if there were, it could have been handled a lot better. Current events feel like a troup of rabid dogs came rushing in, smashing everything in its path. CErtainly not the claimed soft-touch.

It is not a personal attack to tell an admin that he is not suited at all for the job. It's constructive criticism right? Edmon managed to alienate at least half the forum here in 3 days time. Mostly by banning Kull. That he is not unbanned yet, does not speak well.

I fear that when all is said and done, there won't be many decent forumites left.





So lets be clear on the facts here:

I locked a thread that had pinups posted to it and not 2 pages earlier, it had thinly veiled porn. No-one was warned or banned and that time and the community was invited to make a new thread without the rule-breaking content.

A huge issue was made of this, we explained our reasoning and the thread discussing the discussion was closed.

Kull reopened the thread, ignoring our request that future discussion should be sent to us via PM and was given some time-out for this. Others joined in and those threads were locked also.

I undid the timeout 7 or so hours ago, so kull is no longer banned and has not been for a while.


These threads have been closed because they are just become a place to vent about the new policies we have in place, which have been in place for a few months now and which we are now enforcing. Much the same as when the policies were introduced.

It is deeply unfortunate that there has been this sort of reaction, but locking that thread was the right decision and I stand by it.

I hope this answers your questions.

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 6
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 3:40:36 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		It was not porn, it was part of a plant.

I remember when someone posted a picture of a tree on an AAR and it received 6 pages of comments before the next turn was completed. Needless to state that his opponent thought that there was huge operation planned in the game.

I also saw WITP in the store and I did not purchase it due to the price. Then I read an AAR which got me interested in the game.

The people who complain are probably the same ones who idolize a certain individual who had a porno video go mainstream and then had a show about that individual. I know what I would call someone who received $5 million USD for being married to someone for about 90 days . . .

There were people who drove long time forum members away due to their pushing of their ideological and political agendas on other members. These appear to be the same people complaining about the pictures and . . .




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/15/2022 3:43:12 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 7
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 3:42:43 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Edmon, I support the end you want to achieve. But the means you are using is having unintended negative consequences. This has been pointed out by several people.

When you respond to complaints about the means you are using, you go back to repeating things about the end and ask that we accept the end. This misses the point and is almost perverse.

I see little harm if people to vent, complain, whine, and criticize the new policy. This is part of working things out. But by suppressing such discussions, you are likely causing harm with little benefit to anything. Yes, you want to keep complaints from going overboard, but the suppression of all complaints, and even discussion, is a bad idea.

(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 8
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 3:54:26 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It was not porn, it was part of a plant.


If you were a 12-year-old, I could appreciate your being a smart aleck.

But you're an adult, and this answer is disingenuous and embarrassing.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 9
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:00:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It was not porn, it was part of a plant.


If you were a 12-year-old, I could appreciate your being a smart aleck.

But you're an adult, and this answer is disingenuous and embarrassing.



So a personal attack on me?

I publicly ask Edmon, Eric Rutins, and/or Iain McNeil to ban you for making such an attack on me in violation of the forum rules:

quote:

Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers

If you agree to abide by our rules below and the Terms of Use which can be found at http://www.matrixgames.com/termsofuse.asp, please click on the Forum Agreement box and then press the Ok button, which will enable you to register on this message board. If you do not agree to these terms, press the Cancel button.

This message board is where gamers can feel free to exchange ideas and communicate directly with Matrix Games and its developers. You will find Matrix Games and its developers to be very hands on to answer your questions, give support and discuss your ideas for our products or just to chat.

In order to keep this a place for all of us to enjoy and for you to participant on our message board we must layout a few rules and policies.

Matrix Games is solely responsible for creating, hosting, and maintaining this message board. This is a private board and shall not be used for anyone personal causes.

Matrix Games.com reserves the right to ban any person from this message board which it has determined to be in violation or simply just for the good of the overall community. Matrix Games also reserves the right to delete or remove any post on our message board.

Bearing that in mind, all Members must agree to follow these simple rules:

No foul language or any type of language that would be consider abusive this includes any materials which are knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, sexual oriented, vulgar, obscene, hateful, harassing, profane, racist, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or that otherwise violates any local, state, national or international law or regulation.

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No multiple message board accounts by a single person are prohibited.

No blatant advertisements for non-Matrix Games products, schemes, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also prohibited from this message board. Users are allowed to include a web site address in a signature, request comments on their personal site in a social setting, or provide an interesting or relevant link to another site.

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_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 10
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:06:48 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		Back from the Gulag - my deepest thanks and appreciation for those who spoke out on my behalf. Many of them were apparently banned for so doing, and hopefully those have been reversed as well.


_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 11
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:10:48 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Please see my post here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5129183

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 12
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:11:26 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So a personal attack on me?



RJ - Emotions are high, and rightly so, but I do think it would be beneficial to hold off on this. There's more than one way to approach an issue, but that one won't work.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 13
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:17:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So a personal attack on me?



RJ - Emotions are high, and rightly so, but I do think it would be beneficial to hold off on this. There's more than one way to approach an issue, but that one won't work.


I do not withdraw my request.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 14
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 4:46:25 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
So a personal attack on me?

Your contribution to making this a better forum is for you to re-think your behavior. For some time you were Mr. Swastika, and then you decided to become Mini-Alfred (rude to new members but without his knowledge). Now you've decided be behave like a precocious 12-year old.

Those who behave like smart aleck 12-year-olds can expect that moderators will treat them (and others!) like 12-year-olds who need strong parental punishments.

You clearly get something from behaving these ways, but at the cost of making this a worse place to visit.

Please consider how you can improve the forum instead of using the forum for your own selfish purposes.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 5:02:26 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		This is my last check-in for today. Please, please keep things civil.

Rangerjoe, it was both a plant and an inappropriate post that was meant to cross the line of the rules. It does not have to be one or the other. It was also however from last year and too old for immediate action. The more recent posts were the actionable infractions.

Panjack, while I think your intentions may be good and your original post was arguably on the borderline of a personal attack, this last reply definitely does cross it and you'll never convince anyone by arguing that way. Consider this a warning, we all need to be able to disagree with civility, even when we strongly disagree.

Separately, in terms of the comment you made about rudeness to new members, if you see anyone violating the forum rules in terms of civility, just share a link with me via PM and I'll take a look when I am able.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 16
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 5:04:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
So a personal attack on me?

Your contribution to making this a better forum is for you to re-think your behavior. For some time you were Mr. Swastika, and then you decided to become Mini-Alfred (rude to new members but without his knowledge). Now you've decided be behave like a precocious 12-year old.

Those who behave like smart aleck 12-year-olds can expect that moderators will treat them (and others!) like 12-year-olds who need strong parental punishments.

You clearly get something from behaving these ways, but at the cost of making this a worse place to visit.

Please consider how you can improve the forum instead of using the forum for your own selfish purposes.


Again, more insults. I renew my public call for this individual to be banned for violating the rules.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 17
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/15/2022 6:09:10 PM   
Panjack

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 7/12/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Panjack, while I think your intentions may be good....

I stand, hat in hand, chastised.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/16/2022 3:19:14 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5129032

Here a thread locked, so I continue here...

Hans was not correct, he said EDOM is satan? I mean I am curious how he comes to this conclusion perhaps he sees this thread here and answers.

Per "biblical" history, edomites were:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/who-are-the-edomites-in-the-bible.html


Here a snippet:

"The Edomites worshiped multiple gods. Hope Bolinger explains for Christianity.com, “Qos, the chief god of the Edomites, stood out amounts the pantheon fertility gods. The One True God is a jealous God, and throughout the biblical narrative, we witness His righteous and just reaction to those who refuse to respond given His longstanding patience. “They intermarried with the conquered population,” Easton’s Bible Dictionary informs. The Edomites were eventually overtaken and forced to consider Judaism, and they were involved in the attack and plunder of the City of Jerusalem. The entire people group was eventually wiped out."

So they were wiped out..


< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 1/16/2022 3:20:25 PM >

(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 19
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/16/2022 3:35:23 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Panjack, while I think your intentions may be good....

I stand, hat in hand, chastised.




You might used a word w/ "sexual undertones"

This word relates to "Chastity-belt"




Lets hope the mods do not see you used this bad word

(in reply to Panjack)
Post #: 20
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/16/2022 4:18:54 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		That's not helpful, and you know it. At the most basic level of forum "etiquette", the post you replied to did not require a response from anyone in the community. And the chastity pic is just needlessly provocative.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 21
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/16/2022 4:20:37 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

That's not helpful, and you know it. At the most basic level of forum "etiquette", the post you replied to did not require a response from anyone in the community. And the chastity pic is just needlessly provocative.


It is part of history....so 100% nothing wrong with it
Explain why it is "provocative"




< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 1/16/2022 4:39:13 PM >

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 22
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 8:17:16 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

That's not helpful, and you know it. At the most basic level of forum "etiquette", the post you replied to did not require a response from anyone in the community. And the chastity pic is just needlessly provocative.


It is part of history....so 100% nothing wrong with it
Explain why it is "provocative"




Because the owners have already told us they do not want the topic of sex to be part of what the forum is about. There are lots of other places to have that discussion. Let's respect the owners of this "virtual establishment" and drop the topic.


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 23
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 12:24:39 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2826
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		I REALLY wish Edmon would just instantly lock and delete all off-topic threads, including this one. I would like to be able to come to this forum with game queries etc and not see all this vitriol flying around all the time.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 24
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 2:45:53 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah gotta becareful what you say or post, things can get out of line in here. Some fans doesnt know when to stop, also it different how people react in different country and yes they can feel like be offended by this or that. All i can say, if you dont like it, dont go in there and feed the trolls!

Just simply ignore it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 25
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 2:50:39 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenix100

I REALLY wish Edmon would just instantly lock and delete all off-topic threads, including this one. I would like to be able to come to this forum with game queries etc and not see all this vitriol flying around all the time.


Then why don't you just ignore these threads? Or go somewhere else where everything is absolutely game related . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 26
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 4:26:50 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2826
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah gotta becareful what you say or post, things can get out of line in here. Some fans doesnt know when to stop, also it different how people react in different country and yes they can feel like be offended by this or that. All i can say, if you dont like it, dont go in there and feed the trolls!

Just simply ignore it.

_____________________________

Yep.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 27
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/17/2022 4:27:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

Yeah gotta becareful what you say or post, things can get out of line in here. Some fans doesnt know when to stop, also it different how people react in different country and yes they can feel like be offended by this or that. All i can say, if you dont like it, dont go in there and feed the trolls!

Just simply ignore it.

I find it interesting to hear opinions from different countries. Often it helps me understand better how our own culture/media are affecting our opinion too much!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Rising-Sun)
Post #: 28
RE: Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads - 1/18/2022 11:26:29 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Please move any further discussion along these lines to this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5129183

Thank you.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 29
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Moderators - PLEASE stop locking threads Page: [1]
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