Amphibious TF as Supply Source

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Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/18/2022 7:05:32 PM

rmeckman

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I�m in the early stages of the full campaign as the Allies and have mainly used amphibious task forces to drop troops and supplies off at small friendly ports and beach (green dot) hexes. However, I�ve also wondered whether an amphibious TF can be used to supply LCUs cut off from friendly base supplies. WitW places a temporary port in the destination hex of an amphibious TF, but WitP AE doesn�t appear to have anything similar. The most relevant thread I�ve found so far is

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2601194

which indicates that supply is only offloaded over-the-beach from an amphibious TF to fulfill the supply needs of LCUs in the same hex as the TF. Suppose I create a supplies-only amphibious TF and send it to a non-port coastal hex that currently has no friendly LCUs present. Will the supplies will just sit on the ships until a friendly LCU does enter the hex? In other words, must cut-off LCUs move to the TF hex to get supplied rather than the supplies moving over land (by trucks or whatever) from the TF to the LCUs?

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/18/2022 7:26:24 PM

KenchiSulla

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

Suppose I create a supplies-only amphibious TF and send it to a non-port coastal hex that currently has no friendly LCUs present. Will the supplies will just sit on the ships until a friendly LCU does enter the hex? In other words, must cut-off LCUs move to the TF hex to get supplied rather than the supplies moving over land (by trucks or whatever) from the TF to the LCUs?

You cannot unload supply @ a non-base hex with no LCU as far as I know. If you would set your TF to retire it would move to the target hex, do nothing and then return. If you set it to remain, it would remain. There is no such thing as depot or supply trucks (WitE, WitW, WitE2)

You could land troops at a nonbase hex and supply would also get unloaded. This has happened to the most of us in error (forgetting to set "do not unload" and landing troops 1 or 2 hexes from the actual objective -facepalm-)

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/18/2022 7:34:35 PM

Yaab

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I swear I cannot find my own threads anymore (sadly the picture got deleted)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4207559&mpage=1&key=yaab%2Csupplies%2Caustralia�

EDIT: Added the missing picture in the thread.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 1/18/2022 7:45:18 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/18/2022 8:05:43 PM

RangerJoe

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You can unload in a non-base hex. Just ask Lowpe what Stalin's reaction was to some rotten sushi dumped on the Siberian coast in 1942 . . .

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 10:11:40 AM

Ian R

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Why don't you sandbox it: set up an amph TF from Anchorage, send it to dump its load on some non base hex on the Alaska coast, and see if it works?

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 1:22:44 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Why don't you sandbox it: set up an amph TF from Anchorage, send it to dump its load on some non base hex on the Alaska coast, and see if it works?

Well, with the Tokyo Express you can drop units and supplies in a non-base hex . . .

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 1:55:23 PM

Ian R

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I was thinking rmeckman could put the TF on 'remain on station' and if see if it unloads the supplies by checking its load. That gives the first part of the answer. The second part is a bit harder. There is no "location" - I am deliberately using the nomenclature from the scenario database, which takes up both bases and ground units - which can act as a receptacle for any unload, so maybe such supplies as unload (if any

) are just thrown away.

IME, the answer is 'yes, move the LCU to the offload hex', but it's worth rmeckman sand-boxing it to see what happens.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 2:40:44 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I was thinking rmeckman could put the TF on 'remain on station' and if see if it unloads the supplies by checking its load. That gives the first part of the answer. The second part is a bit harder. There is no "location" - I am deliberately using the nomenclature from the scenario database, which takes up both bases and ground units - which can act as a receptacle for any unload, so maybe such supplies as unload (if any) are just thrown away.

IME, the answer is 'yes, move the LCU to the offload hex', but it's worth rmeckman sand-boxing it to see what happens.

I don't remember if Lowpe had an amphibious TF or an Fast Transport TF when he unloaded the supplies in a non-base hex in Siberia. That did activate the Soviets and it completely changed the way that the war was unfolding. I do know that I can use a Fast Transport TF to unload troops and supplies at a non-base hex - including a mountain hex - and have done so.

In fact, if I remember correctly, Canoerebel did use an invasion TF to invade a non-base hex to block a Japanese retreat in Hokkaido.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 11:21:00 PM

Ian R

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Once you put troops ashore there is a location available to unload the supplies to. That is the difference.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/19/2022 11:53:00 PM

rmeckman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I was thinking rmeckman could put the TF on 'remain on station' and if see if it unloads the supplies by checking its load. That gives the first part of the answer. The second part is a bit harder. There is no "location" - I am deliberately using the nomenclature from the scenario database, which takes up both bases and ground units - which can act as a receptacle for any unload, so maybe such supplies as unload (if any) are just thrown away.

IME, the answer is 'yes, move the LCU to the offload hex', but it's worth rmeckman sand-boxing it to see what happens.

I did a quick test using an old save by loading an amphibious TF in Darwin with supplies only and setting its destination to hex 75,123. This is a non-base coastal hex on Bathurst Island just north of Darwin. The TF is set to Remain on Station. During turn resolution, the TF is reported to be unloading, but no supplies actually come ashore; the TF just sits at the destination hex with its full 80% amphibious load. It appears that an LCU is required to offload supplies in a non-base coastal hex from an amphibious TF.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 12:09:50 AM

BananaConvention

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quote:

I did a quick test using an old save by loading an amphibious TF in Darwin with supplies only and setting its destination to hex 75,123. This is a non-base coastal hex on Bathurst Island just north of Darwin. The TF is set to Remain on Station. During turn resolution, the TF is reported to be unloading, but no supplies actually come ashore; the TF just sits at the destination hex with its full 80% amphibious load. It appears that an LCU is required to offload supplies in a non-base coastal hex from an amphibious TF.

This one post just saved me an hour of trying to configure a test. Thank you for sharing this info to a novice!

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 12:42:52 AM

Zovs

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Yes thanks for this. I think I need to find a scenario I can use to test things maybe Guadalcanal.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 1:54:23 AM

BananaConvention

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Speaking of scenarios, would you be interested in a PBEM scenario for the Guadalcanal campaign? I would like to play IJN for it. I'm very novice but it sounds like you are too so this could be good!

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 3:16:05 AM

Ian R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I was thinking rmeckman could put the TF on 'remain on station' and if see if it unloads the supplies by checking its load. That gives the first part of the answer. The second part is a bit harder. There is no "location" - I am deliberately using the nomenclature from the scenario database, which takes up both bases and ground units - which can act as a receptacle for any unload, so maybe such supplies as unload (if any) are just thrown away.

IME, the answer is 'yes, move the LCU to the offload hex', but it's worth rmeckman sand-boxing it to see what happens.

I did a quick test using an old save by loading an amphibious TF in Darwin with supplies only and setting its destination to hex 75,123. This is a non-base coastal hex on Bathurst Island just north of Darwin. The TF is set to Remain on Station. During turn resolution, the TF is reported to be unloading, but no supplies actually come ashore; the TF just sits at the destination hex with its full 80% amphibious load. It appears that an LCU is required to offload supplies in a non-base coastal hex from an amphibious TF.

Yes, that is what I have seen.

The exe works logically and sequentially - in phase x it tries to unload where you told it to, but it finds there is no receptacle "location" that the supplies can go to, so they stay on ship.

Note this means that in an amphibious invasion, make sure your supply only TFs are higher numbered than the troop carrying TFs, so some troops get ashore (forming fragment units that are a 'location') before the supply TFs do. TFs move, and under take activities, starting from TF1 and progressing upwards through the numbers.

I believe Ranger Joe's anecdote about Lowpe triggering Soviet entry by an attempted unload reflects that - the trigger had happened before the exe looked for a location to unload the supplies into.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 6:57:57 AM

Yaab

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I was thinking rmeckman could put the TF on 'remain on station' and if see if it unloads the supplies by checking its load. That gives the first part of the answer. The second part is a bit harder. There is no "location" - I am deliberately using the nomenclature from the scenario database, which takes up both bases and ground units - which can act as a receptacle for any unload, so maybe such supplies as unload (if any) are just thrown away.

IME, the answer is 'yes, move the LCU to the offload hex', but it's worth rmeckman sand-boxing it to see what happens.

I did a quick test using an old save by loading an amphibious TF in Darwin with supplies only and setting its destination to hex 75,123. This is a non-base coastal hex on Bathurst Island just north of Darwin. The TF is set to Remain on Station. During turn resolution, the TF is reported to be unloading, but no supplies actually come ashore; the TF just sits at the destination hex with its full 80% amphibious load. It appears that an LCU is required to offload supplies in a non-base coastal hex from an amphibious TF.

I think you have to test now if supplies will be shared between a newly unloaded LCU and the stranded LCU in the enemy territory where you have no friendly base.

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 7:45:49 AM

Ian R

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Yes, rmeckman should test that to, ah, validate my location recipient hypothesis

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RE: Amphibious TF as Supply Source - 1/20/2022 7:23:45 PM

rmeckman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I think you have to test now if supplies will be shared between a newly unloaded LCU and the stranded LCU in the enemy territory where you have no friendly base.

Michaelm, who was one of the devs, states in post #6 of this thread that

quote:

There is code to 'borrow' excess supply from friendly units in the same hex during the Supply phase if an [sic] unit has supply in excess of twice it's requirements.

so one option is to move the isolated LCUs to the amphibious TF hex to get supplies directly. Another is to offload other LCUs that receive considerable excess supplies and then move to the isolated LCUs. I can see some potential for abuse in the latter approach: a small mobile unit might be offloaded and gorged like a logistical fois-gras duck and then sent waddling off into the hinterlands at normal movement rates.

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