Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/21/2022 11:18:28 PM   
Chernobyl

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/27/2012
Status: offline 		According to Wikipedia Cantarell Oilfield wasn't discovered until 1972. It's also an offshore field.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantarell_Field

Mexico gets two full-strength oilfields (Cantatell and one next to Mexico City) producing 30mpp each for the USA once Mexico joins. This seems a bit high to me. According to my sources, Mexico produced about the same amount of crude as Romania (which gets one oilfield) and only about 1/3 as much as Venezuela. Perhaps the map should be slightly altered?

https://wayback.archive-it.org/6321/20160901222530/http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/league/le0277ah.pdf

Above is a cool document where you can view crude oil production by country in 1939 on page 131.
TLDR here is a select list of countries in millions of metric tons of crude produced (rounded):
Iran: 10
Iraq: 8
Egypt: 1
Canada: 1
Mexico: 7
Trinidad: 3
Romania: 6
India: 1
British Borneo: 1
Burma: 1
Dutch East Indies: 8
Venezuela: 30
Colombia: 3
USA: 123
USSR: 30
Japan: 0
Germany: 1

< Message edited by Chernobyl -- 1/21/2022 11:36:45 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/22/2022 4:09:09 AM   
ThunderLizard11

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 2/28/2018
Status: offline 		Always room for improvement. It would be interesting if oil were a special resource that effected armor/air readiness like in WarPlan rather than just generic MPP.

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 2
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/22/2022 4:50:31 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Always room for improvement. It would be interesting if oil were a special resource that effected armor/air readiness like in WarPlan rather than just generic MPP.

I second that notion. Maybe it will come in a SC-4

I wonder is the extra oil Mexico has is just a balancing deal here.

Nice chart Chernobyl btw. Reminds me of the SC-WW1 insights you brought to the table and helped forward some changes, many which were critical imo..to that wonderful game.

_____________________________

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBUHYdk7tcejmU5k9cOw

(in reply to ThunderLizard11)
Post #: 3
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 12:08:20 AM   
Bo Rearguard


Posts: 492
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline 		Interesting article about the Cantarell Field.

To tell you the truth I think US oil production in the game is vastly understated. The giant Permian Oil Basin in western Texas according to some sources accounted for almost 25% of US production by 1944. And yet it's not even on the map. Perhaps the Cantarell Field could be swapped for one somewhere south of Amarillo?

I also would be inclined to move one of the California oil fields to Oklahoma which currently isn't represented at all. California only accounted for 15% of US production in 1941. Right now, it seems more like 40%. Plus, the usefulness of California oil was always hampered by the fact that there was no transcontinental pipeline connection with the eastern US, so its oil was mostly refined and used on the West Coast and in the Pacific Theater. This left Texas, Oklahoma and Gulf oil to power the Eastern US.

The US was an oil behemoth in the 1940s. Just for comparison, California alone at the time was producing a little more oil than the entire Soviet Union, and New Mexico was producing a little less than Romania. Even midwestern Illinois was a rather large oil producer then. I imagine if these numbers were accurately reflected, it would really unbalance the game.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bo Rearguard -- 1/23/2022 5:39:06 AM >

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 4
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 12:29:48 AM   
Chernobyl

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/27/2012
Status: offline 		Take into account USA oil production isn't really "worth" as much as would be to the Axis. Giving the USA 10x as much oil in WWII wouldn't have made much difference, but give Hitler 10x as much oil and there could have been a real difference.

Also MPP is abstract. It covers everything from troop reinforcements to battleships to "political points" for replacing leaders. You can't do all those things with just oil.

Therefore, it wouldn't be a good idea to give the USA more MPP from oilwells, although a rearrangement might make some sense.

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
Post #: 5
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 1:20:48 AM   
Torplexed


Posts: 305
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

It would be interesting if oil were a special resource that effected armor/air readiness like in WarPlan rather than just generic MPP.


I'd be in favor of that as well. As it stands Japan can run its fuel hungry navy in fleet operations until the end of the game without ever having to step a foot into the oil rich Netherlands East Indies. In reality what was left of the IJN in 1945 was pretty much immobilized due to lack of oil.


_____________________________


(in reply to ThunderLizard11)
Post #: 6
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 3:06:56 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Take into account USA oil production isn't really "worth" as much as would be to the Axis. Giving the USA 10x as much oil in WWII wouldn't have made much difference, but give Hitler 10x as much oil and there could have been a real difference.

Also MPP is abstract. It covers everything from troop reinforcements to battleships to "political points" for replacing leaders. You can't do all those things with just oil.

Therefore, it wouldn't be a good idea to give the USA more MPP from oilwells, although a rearrangement might make some sense.

Maybe the rearrangement like Torplexed suggested...The Permian Complex in Texas for the extra one in Mexico?


_____________________________

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBUHYdk7tcejmU5k9cOw

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 7
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 3:43:05 AM   
Chernobyl

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/27/2012
Status: offline 		Well just take note that Mexico doesn't start allied so it might affect how many MPP USA gets early.

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 8
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 6:11:17 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Well just take note that Mexico doesn't start allied so it might affect how many MPP USA gets early.

Yeah I know that...perhaps that's why the extra oil well in Mexico was placed for balance reasons mid game.
Still an interesting discussion that you started...with charts and links provide on this thread. Nice reading and musing over for those that like this subject matter.



< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 1/23/2022 6:13:34 AM >

_____________________________

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBUHYdk7tcejmU5k9cOw

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 9
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 7:00:55 AM   
Torplexed


Posts: 305
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


Maybe the rearrangement like Torplexed suggested...The Permian Complex in Texas for the extra one in Mexico?



Actually that was Bo Rearguard's suggestion. However, it does seem odd that there is currently no oil production to speak of in Oklahoma of all places. Oil gushers were practically the state symbol in the early 20th century.

I've also noticed that some US oilfields start the 1939 game at zero MPPs. I've always wondered what is the rationale for that...the lingering effects of the Depression?

_____________________________


(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 10
RE: Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production - 1/23/2022 2:54:11 PM   
BaggieMania

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/12/2020
Status: offline 		As far as I know its like this.
It represents the US industry gearing up for war, as it took some time for the industry to go from civilian goods to military production and since oil wells are like mines (just better) and contribute to mpps i reckon that was the easiest way of doing it.

< Message edited by BaggieMania -- 1/23/2022 3:54:15 PM >

(in reply to Torplexed)
Post #: 11
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Cantarell Oilfield and General Oil Production Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.438