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Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/23/2022 10:10:46 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Look at this, in a PBEM against generalfdog, we had a fantastic naval battle for the control of Central Med.
The date is January 3rd, 1941.

This is the small fleet scenario and I absolutely love it. Not a decisive battle for the Royal Navy or for the Regia Marina, one BB lost for Royal Navy plus few steps on other ships. Two DD lost for Italy plus few steps on other ships.

Consequence of the small fleet scenario, I was not able to combine all my ships in one naval stack to use only ONE supply oiler. A nice thing in addition to the tune down of shore bombardment. We need to buy more supply oilers now.

I will never play the standard scenario anymore only small fleet.

Congratulations Alvaro, this is a super change.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 1/23/2022 10:11:17 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
Post #: 1
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/23/2022 10:13:26 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Also, with the corrected air power, Malta is a key location for Naval Air Strike now...

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 2
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/23/2022 10:55:28 PM   
generalfdog

 

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/18/2020
Status: offline 		That is a fun game with lots of interesting engagements, I am also enjoying the small fleet games a lot more both in wpp and wpe

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 3
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/24/2022 12:01:30 AM   
Nirosi

 

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline 		I must say that I tried it once and although not perfect, it does seem to have a more realistic feel (tactically and for results) and is (for me anyway) a little more fun.

(in reply to generalfdog)
Post #: 4
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/24/2022 5:55:47 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

Posts: 416
Joined: 9/2/2012
Status: offline 		I don't like the 3 naval unit limit, maybe something in between like 6 units would be ideal.

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My native language is Spanish, and no English language mastery, sorry.

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Post #: 5
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/24/2022 2:19:56 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		They are grouped into Task Units which were a grouping designation of the time.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 6
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/24/2022 7:14:18 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: generalfdog

That is a fun game with lots of interesting engagements, I am also enjoying the small fleet games a lot more both in wpp and wpe


Yeah, two turns of small skirmishes before this major one and I ran out of fuel. But, it continues.




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_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to generalfdog)
Post #: 7
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/24/2022 7:17:21 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CHINCHIN

I don't like the 3 naval unit limit, maybe something in between like 6 units would be ideal.


6, on which criteria? Don't forget the game scale. The only thing I won't count in a naval stack is the number of troop transports.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to CHINCHIN)
Post #: 8
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 8:00:59 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

Posts: 416
Joined: 9/2/2012
Status: offline 		The game scale is in favor of many naval units occupying the same hex. Since a hexagon represents between 40-80 Km.

The ground support of the naval units, which I myself criticize for its great potential, I have realized that it is the only way for the allies to advance in Africa and Italy, and for certain invasions to be successful, if it reduces it to 3 losses this advantage. You spend much more time moving fleets, to protect convoy lines, and for naval battles, which the end result I guess is similar if you do 3 small battles than if you do one big one. I'm also guessing that fleets are more vulnerable to air attack.

Perhaps it is a bit early to comment, since I have not thoroughly tested this variant. But for now, what I see is that it takes much longer to move the fleet for a similar result, especially when it comes to protecting convoy lines.

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My native language is Spanish, and no English language mastery, sorry.

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Post #: 9
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 12:45:44 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Well this is all done to better represent navies in WP2.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to CHINCHIN)
Post #: 10
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 4:36:59 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Right now the concerns are...

1) Invasions...makes it tougher. Might be a good thing...might be a bad thing. Time will tell.
2) Subs...they are much more powerful now...or is it safer? 3 subs now can attack a group of 3 rather than 9...and believe me that almost always goes in their favor. In my testing it is very favorably for the Axis...to the point of a detriment for the Allies to put ships in the convoy lanes. Last turn against Sveint 2 CV hits and 6 DD hits to 2 sub hits. That is very pricey.
3) Land based air...it used to be dangerous to attack a fleet of 9...but a fleet of 3...nope. You may lose 1 or 2 planes rather than 6 or more.
4) Italians...makes their navy actually useful, especially their subs. I think out of all my games their subs 90% of the time hit nothing and just get smashed. BUT against 3 ships...they become extremely good. Not saying that this is overly bad...just putting it out there.

The Allies had a single advantage until the US joined...and that was naval wise. This cripples that.


(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 11
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 5:05:00 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		1) Invasions. Well, there is an exception or a bug, I don't have a firm answer here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5130847

2) One question for sveint, does it put all his Allies fleets on convoy lanes in Raider mode or in Fleet mode? In my experience, subs are usually missing enemy fleets.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 12
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 5:57:23 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Good question...though should not matter to be honest. Subs look for them either way if they are in fleet mode.
And ships don't want to find them so suspect they are are in raider but never know.
.
Luckily all the hits he has taken has caused him to sit in port while I send MM to the ocean floor. Just creating man made reefs for sealife.

I have not tried to stack 5 ships so...we are keeping to the 3 to be fair.


And to be honest if your ships are on the convoy lanes searching for subs...they should be required to be in fleet mode. They are actively searching not trying to avoid contact.,


< Message edited by stjeand -- 1/25/2022 6:14:05 PM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 13
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 6:22:34 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Fleet move.

Naval combat is very random and in the game vs stjeand I've been unlucky. I'm also doing a big BEF (not really my thing, but I change things up a bit) so my BOA resources have been lacking.

Honestly I prefer the no-BEF strategy, it works better for me. Makes the UK and Egypt impossible to take and BOA much easier.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 14
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 6:23:41 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I should add that while I really like Small Fleets, stjeands point 2) is very valid. Submarines seem very powerful. I for sure will build submarines for Italy in future games.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 15
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 8:23:45 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I should add that while I really like Small Fleets, stjeands point 2) is very valid. Submarines seem very powerful. I for sure will build submarines for Italy in future games.


I am trying. The only thing I have is +1 enemy fleet spotted.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 16
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/25/2022 8:57:40 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		In one test I sank 2 DD in one turn...very random.
That was a LOT of PP...600 to be exact.
Not sure what it is costing to fix 2 CV points and 6 DD points...less for sure but still expensive when you are trying to save your PPs for MMs.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 17
RE: Fantastic naval battle in Central Med - 1/31/2022 10:30:58 AM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
I am trying. The only thing I have is +1 enemy fleet spotted.



I posted this in another message but...

Think about this.

I am a UK fleet commander. I need to hunt for subs to protect my shipping. HOW can my ships then be in raider mode trying to avoid subs though searching for subs to attack them?
That is not even possible.
So NO ships should be allowed in raider mode and able to assist the convoys from subs.

Sorry but that makes zero sense.

And yes if they are in raider mode they are harder to attack...because they are trying to hide from the subs.
Yet they get to attack the subs attacking the convoy.





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Post #: 18
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