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RE: A map update - 11/14/2021 6:42:48 AM   
MarkShot

 

Posts: 7089
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks for the continued support.

Old titles are invaluable part of our digital cultural heritage.

Your efforts are on par with things such as DOSBOX.

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(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 31
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 9:29:03 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline 		I spotted an error in the updated stock map art (as opposed to the map data): I inadvertently "imported" the extended map version of Western Luzon (i.e. Subic Bay) and Western Malaya (i.e. Batu Pahat) into the stock map art update. It is only the map art that is not correct - the map data is correct.

I have fixed that and uploaded new versions of the stock map to my website.

Sorry for the mixup. I think I got too enthusiastic when I was "backporting" some of the map updates from my extended map to the stock map.

(in reply to MarkShot)
Post #: 32
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 12:43:33 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Thanks for the continued support.

Old titles are invaluable part of our digital cultural heritage.

Your efforts are on par with things such as DOSBOX.


Markshot, are you trying to subtly belittle Andrew's continuing work here?

Your post comes across as a bit dismissive.

Was that your intent?

< Message edited by Ian R -- 11/24/2021 7:52:23 AM >

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Post #: 33
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 12:52:52 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I spotted an error in the updated stock map art (as opposed to the map data): I inadvertently "imported" the extended map version of Western Luzon (i.e. Subic Bay) and Western Malaya (i.e. Batu Pahat) into the stock map art update. It is only the map art that is not correct - the map data is correct.

I have fixed that and uploaded new versions of the stock map to my website.

Sorry for the mixup. I think I got too enthusiastic when I was "backporting" some of the map updates from my extended map to the stock map.


Sssshhhh . . . . . iiitttt happens!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 34
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 3:21:32 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?


No I am not aware of that. What is the exact issue?


I looked at the old official map - the east side of the hex has a reef and is a red hexside, but the island should be approachable from other directions. The SPS is (0), so it would be affected by the inability of Naval Support squads to help with loading/unloading (even after a port was built). That may be the reason people thought there was a problem unloading there.


No, that is not the problem.

The problem is that if you direct an amphib TF to that destination to unload supply or anything else, you get a message that the TF can't unload due to "coastal conditions

Edit: See LST's post above. The question is, is it set that way for a reason?


I managed to land troops there amphibiously without noticing a problem but after that I could only resupply by air. I tried using barges and it didn't work. I had put a full aviation engineer battalion on there and some infantry and I built up the port (to no avail). Eventually I put an aviation company on it (by air) and evacuated the rest by air.

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Post #: 35
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 3:49:26 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Here is the shopping mall on Pulau Kalaotao. As you can see there are no roads to it and there's not much selection in the mall.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 36
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 4:29:12 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 37
RE: A map update - 11/23/2021 7:23:31 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Thanks for the continued support.

Old titles are invaluable part of our digital cultural heritage.

Your efforts are on par with things such as DOSBOX.


Marksnot, are you trying to subtly belittle Andrew's continuing work here?

Your post comes across as a bit dismissive.

Was that your intent?

Ian R, I do not see anything dismissive in what MarkShot wrote, and wonder whether your misspelling of his name was on purpose. I think you have not done the forgive, forget and move on step that was asked of us.

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(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 38
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 8:01:28 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		The keys are next to each other, and corrected.

I accept that you have read the post differently to me.

Personally, I think consigning this (windows) game to the "relics" pile that includes DOS pacwar etc and requires backward emulation to 1992 is not warranted.

So I asked the question.

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Post #: 39
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 1:45:09 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Mark has chosen not to post here for the foreseeable future based on the reception he originally received.

I also would have read his post as a compliment. DOSBOX is an amazing creation that kept a lot of old games playable when they would otherwise have been lost to history. WITP-AE is over ten years old at this point, based on an engine that's about twenty years old. It is quite impressive that it's still working, playable and that the community continues to improve it through mods of various kinds. Mark was giving credit where it's due to one of those that continue that work.

Regards,

- Erik


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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 40
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 2:45:57 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		@ Ian R and Markshot: Can you clear up your personal differences per PM perhaps? Does not add to forum..

IIRC Markshot stated that thinks AE is one of his top games, so it seems strange he would "belittle" anyone who tries to add to the game

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 11/24/2021 2:47:17 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 41
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 3:15:31 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Mark has chosen not to post here for the foreseeable future based on the reception he originally received.



Does that mean we can get Alfred back then?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 42
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 3:32:10 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Mark has chosen not to post here for the foreseeable future based on the reception he originally received.



Does that mean we can get Alfred back then?


+1

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 43
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 5:46:56 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Mark has chosen not to post here for the foreseeable future based on the reception he originally received.



Does that mean we can get Alfred back then?


+1


That's up to Alfred. He has not agreed to follow the forum rules, which is a condition for posting here.

Regards,

- Erik


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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 44
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 7:13:48 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Mark has chosen not to post here for the foreseeable future based on the reception he originally received.



Does that mean we can get Alfred back then?


+1


That's up to Alfred. He has not agreed to follow the forum rules, which is a condition for posting here.

Regards,

- Erik



Hold up, he was banned for a week and that was what, ten days ago? And Alfred hasn't been on since (at least that I've seen).

Was the whole "take some time out, come back with a clean slate and start afresh" line just warm words?

I must confess, I was quite sour about this initially, and now I'm becoming acidic.

Quite a situation indeed - now the community is bereft of two members.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 45
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 7:40:00 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline 		FWIW I took Markshot's post as being complimentary and have let him know that (and I agree that DOSBOX is great!)

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 46
RE: A map update - 11/24/2021 9:45:52 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Hold up, he was banned for a week and that was what, ten days ago? And Alfred hasn't been on since (at least that I've seen).

Was the whole "take some time out, come back with a clean slate and start afresh" line just warm words?

I must confess, I was quite sour about this initially, and now I'm becoming acidic.

Quite a situation indeed - now the community is bereft of two members.


Please PM me or e-mail me with further questions, let's not hijack this thread.

A condition of registration here and the ONLY condition of returning from a ban is to agree to follow the forum rules. That's all that has been asked of Alfred and he has refused to agree.

You can't post here unless you agree to follow the forum rules, period. This is only the second time in 20 years that I can recall someone being unwilling to agree to that and thus the ban remains in effect.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 47
RE: A map update - 11/25/2021 10:02:45 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

@ Ian R and Markshot: Can you clear up your personal differences per PM perhaps? Does not add to forum..

IIRC Markshot stated that thinks AE is one of his top games, so it seems strange he would "belittle" anyone who tries to add to the game


I am not going to answer your query, no offense, but I'll just wave my bat over the travel of the ball and let it go through to the 'keeper.

Erik and I have discussed the situation on PM, and if he wants to publish my views on the topic, I have no objection.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 48
RE: A map update - 1/26/2022 6:41:25 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline 		I have prepared another updated version of this map, which now includes the following fixes/changes:

  • The rail line on Shikoku Japan, between Takamatsu (hex 107,59) and hex 107,60 has been removed.
  • A minor railway line has been added connecting the railway in hex 106,59 and Kochi (hex 106,60).
  • The data for the secondary road between Takamatsu (hex 107,59) and Kochi (hex 106,60) has been corrected.
  • A phantom river has been removed from the hexside between hexes 75,128 and hex 74,127 in Australia.
  • A phantom river has been removed from the hexside between hexes 211,26 and hex 210,27 in Canada.
  • River hexside data added for the river hexside between hexes 90,114 and 89,113 in Dutch New Guinea.
  • Mildura (hex 80,164) is now connected by railway to hex 79,165.
  • Canberra (hex 87,169) is now connected by railway to hex 88,168.


As always, many thanks to those who have posted corrections and suggestions. If anyone has further suggestions then please feel free to post them here, and I can check them out.

The updated map is available at this website:
War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Updated Official Map

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 49
RE: A map update - 1/26/2022 10:27:40 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Shouldn't Hong Kong be an island, crossing to it like a river hexside? The Japanese did invade but they did it from the mainland and not from ships. That would make them undergo a shock attack. Also, part of the Hong Kong defenses were on the Kowloon Peninsula with fortifications, I do not know if you want to put that in there for the Commonwealth.

A description of the battle, including a map of he invasion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hong_Kong

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 50
RE: A map update - 1/26/2022 3:49:03 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		Andrew,

again, I can't thank you enough for your continued support of this game!

This may have already been caught, but in hex 70 106 (Kendari), the road shown between Kendari and Kolaka dead ends at the hexside. That is, there is no road in the Kendari hex when displaying the road network and observed movement rates suggest there is indeed no road in the hex data. Is this intentional?

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 51
RE: A map update - 1/27/2022 9:57:46 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Andrew,

again, I can't thank you enough for your continued support of this game!

This may have already been caught, but in hex 70 106 (Kendari), the road shown between Kendari and Kolaka dead ends at the hexside. That is, there is no road in the Kendari hex when displaying the road network and observed movement rates suggest there is indeed no road in the hex data. Is this intentional?


No that is not intentional. And I did not catch that already, so I will fix it. The secondary road should extend to Kendari from hex 69,106. Thanks for pointing that out.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 52
RE: A map update - 1/27/2022 10:05:17 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Shouldn't Hong Kong be an island, crossing to it like a river hexside? The Japanese did invade but they did it from the mainland and not from ships. That would make them undergo a shock attack. Also, part of the Hong Kong defenses were on the Kowloon Peninsula with fortifications, I do not know if you want to put that in there for the Commonwealth.

A description of the battle, including a map of he invasion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hong_Kong


I am aware of the HK geography, but my concern is what effect that change would have on the game. Given the scale Kowloon is in the same hex as the rest of HK, but you could still add a river hexside to simulate the need for Japan to cross over to HK island itself.

What is the collective experience of when HK falls during the game? I only play against the AI, do nothing to improve the HK defence, and find it falls earlier than 25th December. For others, especially in head to head play, does it usually fall earlier than historically? It would not be a good idea to add the river hexside unless that was consistently the case.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 53
RE: A map update - 1/27/2022 1:03:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Same for me playing against the AI - if I do nothing to reinforce HK it falls within about three days of game start - i.e. first assault. My biggest beef about this is the poor morale values given the Canadian troops who, IRL, were spirited and well led.

Wasn't there a causeway connecting HK to the mainland? That could pass as a river crossing since it is easy to defend but does not require ships to cross. There should be something that slows up the pace of Japanese advance for a week or two - recovering disabled squads would do that.

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Post #: 54
RE: A map update - 1/27/2022 3:15:13 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		2 scenario 2 PBEM games. First game Hong Kong fell 22 December. Second game Hong Kong fell 14 December.

Just some information.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 55
RE: A map update - 1/28/2022 12:53:22 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		The reality is that EVERYTHING falls faster, so probably not worth worrying about Hong Kong too much. That said, a river hex or higher fortification levels might delay things a bit. And to the specific question - HK has never held out out until Christmas in any of my (many) restarts.

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Post #: 56
RE: A map update - 1/28/2022 7:04:34 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Yeah, I also wouldn't worry about HK too much. The base is most important in 12/41, but rarely gets much attention after that.
I think putting a river to HK would make the base much harder to take and the LCUs, involved in the shock attack, would need a lot of rest after that to recover to former strength.
I am especially worried how the AI would handle this situation, it may be possible that HK doesn't fall at all...

If the goal is to make HK last longer in 12/41 I think increasing the fortifications or improving the Allied LCUs in the base, would be a better solution.
But, if a Japanese player should decide to pull more units out of Canton or other nearby bases, HK will fall fairly quickly either way, I would think.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 57
RE: A map update - 1/28/2022 3:02:36 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Yeah, I also wouldn't worry about HK too much. The base is most important in 12/41, but rarely gets much attention after that.



I completely disagree with that statement.

HK is a level 9 port, with a useful shipyard. It is the crux of the allied overland drive that liberates Malaya/Indochine/southeast China in 1943-early 44. Supplied by rail and primary road all the way up the Asian littoral magic highway from Singapore, it becomes the Allied base driving the sea-air control campaign into the China Sea, where the Asian littoral strategy is prioritised.

Have you never seen that strategy employed?

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Post #: 58
RE: A map update - 1/28/2022 4:04:11 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Yeah, I also wouldn't worry about HK too much. The base is most important in 12/41, but rarely gets much attention after that.



I completely disagree with that statement.

HK is a level 9 port, with a useful shipyard. It is the crux of the allied overland drive that liberates Malaya/Indochine/southeast China in 1943-early 44. Supplied by rail and primary road all the way up the Asian littoral magic highway from Singapore, it becomes the Allied base driving the sea-air control campaign into the China Sea, where the Asian littoral strategy is prioritised.

Have you never seen that strategy employed?

I took his comment as meaning that attacking HK with heavy bombers would not faze the Japanese much because they don't need to use HK that much. Supply through Shanghai is adequate and there are shipyards at Singapore, Saigon, Pescadores and Shanghai to fix shipping. Of course the Allies would see it as a great strategic base for cutting off SEA from China and for supplying the Chinese, but the context was the Allies attacking HK, not capturing it.

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(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 59
RE: A map update - 1/28/2022 4:34:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Hong Kong has gotten heavy attention and use in all my games...

The presence of rivers can make cd guns and mines ineffective depending how it is done.


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 60
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