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6/13 All orders shipped!! - 7/20/2001 10:22:00 AM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
Status: offline

Anyone else in the same boat as me? Still have not received my CD after three help desk requests. Each time I was told it has shipped. I've waited one week between help desk requests & just entered my 4th. I'm really bugged to see the store showing the MCNA in stock! I pre-ordered way back when because I really want to support Matrix & all the hard working folks that have sweated blood for SPWAW. I am truly disappointed. :mad:

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- 7/20/2001 10:59:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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I'm truly sorry this has happened Jamie. As I have said before, and I know it sounds lame, but I wish I could do something to help. I feel badly for everyone who has not gotten their CD. I know you acted in good faith. The Matrix Office has had its share of problems. Wild Bill

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Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 2

- 7/20/2001 11:52:00 AM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
Status: offline

Thanks Bill, I'm going to still hang in there because of guys like you who have really put a great game together. It's frustrating but I'll try to grin and bear it. Thanks again Bill.

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Post #: 3

- 7/20/2001 12:59:00 PM

SamIam

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Colorado
Status: offline

I'm in that sinking boat with ya, Tried the help desk without response returned 3 times, Should I reorder? Should I cancel my credit card payment? Should I just go to bed and hope it shows up????? AAAAHHHHHHHH...ok I feel better now. :confused: Remember no matter where you go, there you are.

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Post #: 4

- 7/20/2001 1:03:00 PM

Randy

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline

Jamiep1 just hang in there. I know it must be hard not getting the game yet. Once you get the game it will have well been worth it. Like you said the Matrix guys have worked hard, and they're doing their best. Hang in there. Semper Fi Randy

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Randy

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Post #: 5

- 7/20/2001 7:54:00 PM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
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I know how you feel mate. I sleep out beside the mail box

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Post #: 6

- 7/20/2001 8:04:00 PM

Drex

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline

I just received mine day before yesterday so they are still out there. Go ahead and report them as lost you can always cancel when you get it the next day!

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Post #: 7

- 7/20/2001 10:57:00 PM

Fabs

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
Status: offline

I'm in the same boat as you, having ordered five MCNA disks and five MCNA T-shirts several months ago, after putting up with about a month difficulties just to put my order through. Like you, I didn't get the correct info to be able to track my order. Much as I admire Matrix Games for their work on the Steel Panther series of games, I am beginning to despair of their business ability. One thing is to support a bunch of hard working enthusiasts who are doing great things for my favorite hobby, but things change once they start wanting to charge their fellow hobbyists. Much as I want to support them, I feel I must urge them to get their business practices up to scratch. I have paid a relative fortune to have my order delivered in Europe, as every item seems to be charged postage separately. I don't mind, but the long wait is testing my patience. I also worry that these problems may stop potential future customers from supporting their products, which would be a disaster for us enthusiasts. We need Matrix to do well commercially, but they are not going the right way about it right now, if die-hard supporters like me are getting browned off with them. I will not be ordering any more products until my first order is fulfilled.

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Fabs

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Post #: 8

- 7/21/2001 1:57:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

Unfortunately we do not own a shipping company and must rely on UPS, USPS, etc for our shipping. Feel free to continue to beat us up because the shipping company lost or delayed in handling your order. Unfortunately there is not "Fabs" in our order database and you have disabled you email so we have a dificult time figuring out who you are to even check on your order. A lot of you have bombarded the help disk with "where's my disk" posts. We don't know and in nearly every remaining case, its an issue of having yout order once and for whatever reason you did not get it it. We are working to resolve each help desk request on a case by case basis, but each one can take several hours of phone calls back and forth to all the parties involved. Sending addition help desk posts, especially laced with threats and bad language do little to help... Now you can accept our apologies and allow us to work through this realizing we can only track down so many at a time. Many of you have cancelled your orders or charged back your credit cards. That is your right and we understand your reasons. But we hope that if you have any desire to every see any of our future products that you allow salt kicked in the wounds to date sufficient punishment. If you feel we have so egregiously offended teh wargaming community that you feel we deserve to go belly up, that is your right. But if you think we have games in development that you like to see, please take our assurances that you WILL ultimately get your megacampaign disk, as the VAST majority (over 95%) have, and understand that shipping problems are something we have no control over and how time cinsuming it is to resolve each problem. [ July 20, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

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Post #: 9

- 7/21/2001 2:52:00 AM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

Hi Fabs send your full mailing address and order information to sales@matrixgames.com and I look into this myself. On another note a lot of these delays are do to the fact that the orders are using the USPS. We have now totally stop using USPS except for APO and PO Boxes.

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- 7/21/2001 12:24:00 PM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
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Paul, I hope you are not meaning me on threats and using foul language. I keep copies of my correspondence so don't compound the bad feeling here by making such a false statement about me. As I said, PLEASE READ MY FIRST POST HERE, I waited one week between Help Desk requests. I was told every single time that "it has shipped". That is MORE than being kind to Matrix on being patient. Matrix is totally in the wrong no matter where the screw up lands. Blaming someone else or someone who paid a loooonnnngggg time ago & still hasn't received their purchase is terrible customer relations on your part Paul. Man, Bill can calm someone down & you can sure stir the pot. I feel an apology is in order from you Paul, to all who are still waiting for their item. Read a few other posts, some people have ordered a second copy and are tracking it themselves & expect it Monday or Tuesday!!!! What is that? I was P.O.ed, now I'm fuming!!! Bill, can you teach Paul some customer relation techniques? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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- 7/21/2001 12:43:00 PM

bobaloo000

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/19/2001
From: Jackson, NJ
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JamieP - I don't think Paul's comments were directed at you directly, he made them just to point out that they have been receiving those types of posts. I understand your frustration but I'm sure everyone at Matrix is doing the best they can. I had a problem with some WAV files when I got the campaign and Matrix responded within 24 hours with a fix for me. That is good customer service, try getting MicroSoft to do that for you.

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Post #: 12

- 7/21/2001 1:23:00 PM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
Status: offline

bobaloo000 - I appreciate your post. Yes, you did recive good customer service. Unfortunately, there are several of us out here who have not. By not, I mean we are still waiting for something that we paid for several months ago & have not received it yet. That is terrible customer service. David has been apologetic and I have tried to remain calm if not anxious. I love SPWAW, it is the best game out there, IMHO. I have been playing it since it's first rollout by some wonderful avid gamers. I have written Wild Bill expressing my gratitude and for him to extend those wishes to everyone involved. I feel Matrix hit a home run by picking up SPWAW & the dedicated people who have crafted it to what it is today. As mad as I am right now with Paul, believe me, I'll be ordering the next campaign!!! I will support Matrix because of what I feel they want to accomplish. I was a remote support engineer for a telecom company before I became disabled with multiple sclerosis. I worked with our techs on any problems plus assisted our customers who called our 800 number. I dealt with the customers every day, between 8 to 10 hours a day. I was usually in their switch fixing the problem remotely before they ever realized there was one. Believe me, I cannot count the times I was reamed over the phone. The key thing was that my company and I never ever blamed things on anyone but ourselves. We were the point of purchase for our customers. If there was a foul up, we shouldered the blame because we serviced our customers. Yes, I did bang my head against the walls a few million times but I never ever treated the customer wrong. I understand that Matrix is going through a shakedown period. It's not easy and that is why I remained relatively calm until now. When I saw the 6/13 & all orders shipped, I was a little stunned. I checked the store and it showed stock. Remember I pre-ordered so this was disconcerting in the least. Maybe Paul was not aiming at me but to even post like that publicly is a business no-no. Taking the hits and dealing privately one on one is the proper call. It's not just this thread either. I have seen Paul's feelings show up in other threads. When they showed here, I let loose. I was already peeved but I was (and still am) going to wait things out. Wild Bill has an intelligent calming way of trying to defuse something and is very honest about it. I gues Paul's post was the prverbial match to gasoline. No matter how the customers are dealing with it, Matrix has dropped the ball on getting their orders out to some people. I don't know how many and it doesn't really matter. What Matrix should have done is immediately overnighted a CD to the people who have not received their's yet because they have stock. Find and fix the problems with where the blame lies behind the scenes but get the immediate problem fixed now. I ordered mine back on April 2nd & still have not received it. I have received a "it has shipped" three weeks in a row with absolutely no info on tracking. I believe I'm entitled to be just a little peeved. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting. I do appreciate your post and I'm sure I'll be wonderfully happy with MCNA when I receive it. Right now, I reserve the right to be grumpy.

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Post #: 13

- 7/21/2001 11:32:00 PM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
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From: Portsmouth RI
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You have every right to be grumpy, but I think you are reading far more into my post here and taking a post describing generally "unhelpful" behavior as a personal attack...which it was not. If the remaining problems were simply a matter of overnighting a replacement, that would be easy, but unfortunately there are cases where the old store software screwed up mailing addresses, and it does little good for us or the customer to overnight a package to the same bad address that resulted in them not getting the package in the first place! Yes customers can do whatever they want, and if pointing out unhelpful customer behavior that slows us down from helping to solve there problem, how is that "bad customer relations"? And in explaining it why do I owe anyone an apology? Customers can behave irresponsibly just like companies can - and you are guilty only of understandable upset! But others have engaged in behavior that hurts, not helps the problem solving process. How else can we try to work together better as a community if these things are not pointed out and discusse? I don't know who you worked for, but I assume it was an established company with a lot of overhead that moved a lot of product. That is how it cold afford to employ a bank of customer relations phone reps. Unfortunately the wargame community is not large enought to support such an operation, so we can't use the high overhead methods that they do. We use this forum and the help desk to help us do many things at once, design games, test games, answer game questions, and squeeze in responses to irrate customers in there too... Now can say nothing like most companies and post "Gee we are very sorry..." that you like and let you folks founder around or we can post regularly, get spun up occasionally like you do do and basically show you that we are game players like the rest of your, trying to improve the hobby. If a corporate smiley face, rather than real discussion from real people is what you want, then you may have further reason to not like my online personality - some don't ;) I think the open level of discussion and interaction here beats "customer relation speak" and piped in muzak. Feel free to disagree...

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Post #: 14

- 7/22/2001 12:11:00 AM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
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Paul - Thanks for responding. I do have a reason to be upset but I do and will support Matrix games. Yes, my company is quite huge & is only second in size in the world to IBM.If it has a processor, they make it. The way we had things set up, I was the only engineer for the central region of 17 states so they did not deploy a bank of people. It kept me busy but was not an overload. I know that people are going to be angry like I am right now but threats and foul language are uncalled for & I totally back Matrix on not having to deal with something like that. I guess I was already in a bunch & it hit a raw nerve. As far as a wrong address, your help desk showed my proper e-mail address and mailing address each time. I was never contacted at all to see if there were any errors. Simple e-mail or phone call to confirm info & then overnight the CD. Not a rocket science way of taking care of the problem. All I really want is my MCNA!!! :confused: I hope, I pray that it arrives very soon. As far as the way certain people have reacted to the service they are receiving, I still believe that it should be handled directly one on one with that individual no matter what the size of the company. IMHO only, it looks like Matrix is mad at the customers who are upset because they have not received a paid for item. To me, that is bad business practice. Once again, just my opinion. You can feel what you like about certain customers but don't let it bleed onto the forum. That shows and people do pick up on it quickly. Your post did make me feel like I was in the wrong when I am not. You can take my experience with dealing with customer problems or just file it under trashcan. It added fuel to my already stoked fire, misread by me or not. I still reserve the right to be semi-grumpy. :( So the way I look at it is Matrix please get the MCNA disks to the remaining folks & people, don't abuse the Matrix folks with threats & abusive language. Hopefully, the beautiful "middle ground" for all will be found.

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- 7/22/2001 12:19:00 AM

Charles2222

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jamiep1: I suggest to you that one of the reasons the forums are so popular, and the game itself, is specifically because of the what Matrix is. It's not a bunch of stuffy, 'anything for a buck' sicko corporate types, who put on false pretty faces for customers. If Matrix were treating customers as coldly and falsely as corporations claim that customers should be handled, well then Matrix wouldn't 'really' be listening for suggestions, would they? No, they would decide what they want to do, and then ask us what we want, as though they hadn't already made up their minds. IOW, just another phoney front. Sorry about your game, but I work at a backstabbing corporation, and I'll take Matrix any day over that! How's that for a positive testimonial guys?

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Post #: 16

- 7/22/2001 12:58:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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Yes, Jamie, you do have a right to be concerned and express your opinion. So do you all. I do want to insert a reply I just gave in another discussion. I do believe you as a gaming community support us. You want us to improve. We want to improve too. "This groundswell of enthusiasm from all over the world means much more to me personally than I know how to express to all of you. "We are NOT greedy, evil manipulators or smooth talking con-men out to fleece the gaming public. No one has said that, but I just want to clarify the point lest some evil shadows of doubt begin creeping in. "We are a fledgling company, taking our first steps, making mistakes unintentionally and doing our very best to correct them. "We are learning. We will get better. We already are getting better. "For all of you with the patience to understand that and evaluate our sincerity for what it is, I am greatful. "The Matrix Team is one of the most talented and devoted anywhere! I am convinced of that." Wild Bill

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Post #: 17

- 7/22/2001 3:22:00 AM

Fabs

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
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A useful business suggestion: allow David and Wild Bill to handle customer gripes, they are excellent at it. Paul is a very important member of the Matrix team and I have a lot of respect for him, but he does have an unfortunate way of handling criticism. Thank you for letting me know how to pursue my case, David, I will e-mail as suggested today. I desperately want Matrix to succeed. Who the hell else would develop more excellent programs to allow me to enjoy my favorite hobby? My comments were expressing concern about Matrix's future if the teething problems aren't sorted. I have great experience in business myself, and I am only too aware of how tough things get when you charge people for goods and you mess up the delivery, whatever the reasons.

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Fabs

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Post #: 18

- 7/22/2001 5:00:00 AM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
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Wild Bill - Thanks again! You are a very wise & knowing person. I agree with you on the learning & I'm still hanging in there. I absolutely love SPWAW & I'm grateful that Matrix has taken a great game & the people behind it & they are making it even better. I know that I will be ecstatic when I receive it. As I said before, I will be one of the first to order the upcoming new mega campaign. I agree with Fabs on Paul. I'm sure he is a decent guy but he does leave a feeling at times that people's posts are personally bothersome to him. I don't get that from other Matrix folks. Hopefully that is part of the learning process too. Thanks again Bill. Charles - I was lucky. I worked with a great group of people. There was a lot of very hard work & long hours but everyone worked as a team. Partied like a team too!! :) Sorry you have to put up with the backstabbing. That stinks. Only a little ruffled now, no longer grumpy.

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- 7/22/2001 5:22:00 AM

Don

Posts: 810
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Hang in there, Jamie! There have been alot of craters and pitfalls in this first attempt at MC sales, but unlike lesser companies who never change this is a one time thing that will work much better next time. I myself made 2 Help Desk requests, and both were answered and handled the same day. I feel bad that some have "fallen through the cracks", but I KNOW that Matrix will make it right. They'll have it no other way. I look forward to your posts when you get to play the MC! :D

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Post #: 20

- 7/22/2001 6:47:00 AM

Charles2222

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Alright! jamiep1 is pulling through. It's really tough the waiting, particularly your case. With software, with me anyway, I'm so used to getting what I want from the store, and if not that then waiting a week, tops, for stuff ordered over the phone or the internet, that waiting even just the relatively short period I did for my MCNA, made it quite acute. It is however fortunate that given some diligence, even the regular modems can sooner or later download SPWAW during the interim. I've had a pretty good amount of mail experience while I've been working in IS (shipping mainframe tapes on occassion), and I can tell you that a lot hinges on the individual driver. I can't tell you how many times something didn't get to the right place because though it might've got to the right place the person signing for it misplaced it (security guard or receptionist at the front), or it was sent the wrong place and the person signing for it apparently believed that everything that Fedex puts in their hands must automatically belong to them, and therefore didn't check from who it was addressed to before signing it, which if they hadn't signed would've hopefully warned the driver of the wrong place. It's a pretty screwy thing. Paul mentioned a very bad USPS shipping ratio, and though I had very little USPS stuff I sent, I maybe had them screwup only once. I suppose one has to move into an area that is widely known for postal geniuses. I wonder if calling the area postal services and putting them through a few rounds of SPWAW questions, might not be able to tip us off as to what kind of service we can expect in shipping? ;) I can see it now......Yes, UPS?.... In SPWAW, what is the front turret armor of the Tiger tank? If they give the Dixie-Cup-and-the-String routine (ala Lily Tomlin) then you know what you can expect.

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- 7/23/2001 8:51:00 AM

jamiep1

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/7/2000
From: Bloomington, Illinois, US of A
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Yes!!! David responded back with info on my MCNA shipment. There's only one bad thing, my wife is making me clean all the sand out of our living room! She just doesn't understand the importance of North Africa. ;)

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