How does max react work?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> How does max react work?

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How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 4:04:47 AM

BananaConvention

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Particularly as it pertains to subs, I heard that subs only will react to an enemy on another hex if they have an assigned patrol sector. Is this true? If you have a sub parked in a hex will they not react unless an enemy TF drives directly over their hex regardless of the max react?

Also, what should the threat tolerance be for a sub patrol? Does absolute make them more likely to engage or does normal do they same thing? I feel like my sub patrols are being ineffective and I want to make sure I�m setting them up correctly.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 7:10:51 AM

Ian R

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They can react (maximum is) one hex from patrol, then return to patrol.

If you want them to sit in one hex (and react around it), give them a patrol with only the first hex boundary of the patrol area set.

Whether they react, or engage, depends on passing a die roll, and having very aggressive sub captains helps with both.

You can leave them on normal threat tolerance, or dial them up to absolute, but having a high aggression skipper (who usually, but not always, have decent naval skill) is important to get engagements.

Early in the war, USN torpedoes have a high malfunction rate - you are almost better off using your subs to gather intel (i.e. as pickets) with low aggression skippers who stay safe, while the crews are trained up. Later on when the dud rate rate reduces, and the boats have new more effective radars, and you have the PP saved up to spend on aggressive captains, you can shift to a more offensive partol doctrine and get results.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 3:05:30 PM

BananaConvention

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Does the max react work if the sub doesn�t have a defined patrol sector, IE just sitting in a hex with no assignment?

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 3:44:49 PM

Q-Ball

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It only works on Patrol Setting, not "Remain on Station". If you have a sub on "Remain on Station" it will stay in that hex.

As Ian R said, that's a good setting for picket duty for when torps don't work well

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 7:45:19 PM

BananaConvention

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Would you recommend that I assign them a single hex to guard or have them moving around? I am concerned about excessive fuel burn if they give them a large patrol area.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/1/2022 11:43:47 PM

Ian R

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Moving around, if only a couple of hexes back and forth, tends to reduce their D/L.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/2/2022 6:33:25 AM

BananaConvention

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Thank you! I�ve been using my subs all wrong this whole time.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/3/2022 2:13:51 AM

Tanaka

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I tried setting all of my subs to retirement allowed to take advantage of the 1 react setting but I found a disadvantage was my subs were leaving the areas I wanted them in too soon for my taste so I am back and forth on this...

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/3/2022 6:58:22 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I tried setting all of my subs to retirement allowed to take advantage of the 1 react setting but I found a disadvantage was my subs were leaving the areas I wanted them in too soon for my taste so I am back and forth on this...

Retirement allowed is just the opposite of "remain on station" - and it does not use the react setting either. Only Patrol orders use the react setting.

Exception to this is a Carrier React which is different from the react setting. It occurs when an ACTF detects a powerful TF it wants to either attack or flee from. What it will do is subject to several factors and several die rolls over which you have no control. In short, the carrier react is handled automatically but does not use the react setting either.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/3/2022 7:48:56 AM

Ian R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Only Patrol orders use the react setting.

I don't think that is correct.

quote:

7. Naval reaction is not dependent on the TF's movement orders. A TF with "remain on station" orders but also given a reaction range, will react and override the remain on station order and return home after the reaction (which is why one should never give a reaction range to a remain on station TF) whereas other movement orders (eg patrol, follow, waypoints) would see the TF react and subsequently return to its previous movement orders...

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/3/2022 3:39:04 PM

Lokasenna

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My experience follows BBFB's: unless patrol is set, reaction never occurs except for CV TFs reacting to enemy CV TFs in those special circumstances.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/3/2022 4:09:57 PM

Ian R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

My experience follows BBFB's: unless patrol is set, reaction never occurs except for CV TFs reacting to enemy CV TFs in those special circumstances.

Well, I quoted from Alfred's long post on the subject where he disagrees with you, so your response is not unexpected, and is wrong.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 5:55:30 AM

Tanaka

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Wait so if I set my subs to remain on station and patrol the 1 hex react will work or no? Seems to be some conflict of opinion here?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 2/6/2022 5:58:07 AM >

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 6:42:13 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Wait so if I set my subs to remain on station and patrol the 1 hex react will work or no? Seems to be some conflict of opinion here?

Alfred had access to the code so if he said it, it was probably the way it was designed to work at the time. Problem is, I and apparently Lokasenna have not seen TFs that are ordered to remain on station react, even when we forgot to reset the reaction range to 0. So unless the code was changed subsequent to Alfred's post, it would seem to be a very rare kind of reaction that is not what you want if you are trying to get your TFs to engage.

I have had TFs with "remain on station" orders bump into an enemy TF with no combat happening, but my TF always returns to base no matter how harmless the enemy TF was. That happens a lot with minelaying and bombardment TFs when you try to position them the right distance to run in to the enemy base at night and RTB after doing their thing - any encounter with the enemy will mess up the staging attempt if you use "remain on station".

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 7:39:54 AM

Macquarrie1999

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I have also seen better results from using patrol rather than remain on station with regards to reacting to enemy task forces.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 8:14:20 AM

Ian R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Wait so if I set my subs to remain on station and patrol the 1 hex react will work or no? Seems to be some conflict of opinion here?

Alfred had access to the code so if he said it, it was probably the way it was designed to work at the time. Problem is, I and apparently Lokasenna have not seen TFs that are ordered to remain on station react, even when we forgot to reset the reaction range to 0. So unless the code was changed subsequent to Alfred's post, it would seem to be a very rare kind of reaction that is not what you want if you are trying to get your TFs to engage.

I have had TFs with "remain on station" orders bump into an enemy TF with no combat happening, but my TF always returns to base no matter how harmless the enemy TF was. That happens a lot with minelaying and bombardment TFs when you try to position them the right distance to run in to the enemy base at night and RTB after doing their thing - any encounter with the enemy will mess up the staging attempt if you use "remain on station".

quote:

A TF with "remain on station" orders but also given a reaction range, will react and override the remain on station order and return home after the reaction

BBFB, I quoted point 7 above. What you described is not inconsistent with it. Reaction is subject to random factors. Don Bowen said that telling a TF to remain on station, and giving it a react, was counterproductive. Alfred pointed out that if it did, it would RTB after reacting.

Lokasenna asserts in this thread that only TFs on patrol will react. That is not correct.

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 11:58:36 AM

btd64

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BBFANBOY, I know for a fact that Alfred never had access to the code. Also, if you want to have reaction properly then it should be set with a patrol zone or with a transiting TF....GP

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RE: How does max react work? - 2/6/2022 3:40:17 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

My experience follows BBFB's: unless patrol is set, reaction never occurs except for CV TFs reacting to enemy CV TFs in those special circumstances.

Well, I quoted from Alfred's long post on the subject where he disagrees with you, so your response is not unexpected, and is wrong.

Just because Alfred said it doesn't mean it was correct. He was (is) very knowledgeable, but he also had a kneejerk derisive reaction to anyone claiming there was a bug - oftentimes he was correct here too, but it's an inappropriate response when the person posting it has already submitted some level of evidence that they know what they're talking about and are not making a newbie mistake. The CV TF reaction example is a good one where for years he harped on how it was all working correctly, and yet there was a gigantic bug there that was plain to see - and got fixed, eventually. I can make a lot of long posts that disagree with things, too. That doesn't mean that whatever I put in them isn't baloney.

Maybe someday I'll test this, but it's really not important given that this doesn't really cause any problems: if TFs set to remain on station don't react, who cares? If you set it to remain on station you didn't want them to react anyway.

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