DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs LST's Bottlenecks vs Andy Mac: Which do you prefer?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs LST's Bottlenecks vs Andy Mac: Which do you prefer?

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DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs LST's Bottlenecks vs Andy Mac:... - 2/1/2022 8:40:22 PM

Tanaka

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From: USA
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Playing my first PBEM (boy am I learning a lot!) using And Mac's Updated Scen 1 with the Bellum Pacifica map and thinking of what my next future PBEM will be...since I will be eventually switching over to Andrew Brown's extended map updates I am looking at the DaBabes scenarios...

Sort of a PBEM poll here for Vets:

Andy Mac's Scen 1 seems to be the best to play against the AI and seems to have the most up to date fixes? So do you prefer Andy Mac's Scen 1 or I am assuming that...

Do most of you play DaBigBabes C (highly modified LCU's, TOEs, OOBs, reduced naval and aviation support) (extended map and reduced cargos) with the stacking limits (I found supply to be really difficult) or is DaBigBabes B (no reduced cargo)with stacking limits preferred for less difficulty and complexity?

In other words is DaBigBabes C considered the best way to play WITPAE by vets or is this too extreme/difficult and DaBabes A/B(standard map AI possible) or DaBigBabes B (extended map with stacking limits but no cargo reduction) preferred? (I'm assuming extended map and stacking limits are preferred by vets?).

Or do you prefer the deluxe complexity of the even further modded DaBigBabes C LST's Bottlenecks in the Pacific?

Andy Mac: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4692890

DaBabes/DaBigBabes: https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/home

LST's Bottlenecks: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 2/4/2022 8:26:08 PM >

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/1/2022 9:10:29 PM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline

I am playing DaBigBabes B. I have not played C. I have not played as Japan. I have gotten to 1945 playing B. I like it.

I cannot say what the effects of C will be. I think there would be enough allied sealift to move supplies but I am not sure there would be enough APA for large scale invasions that I think would be needed in Japan, Okinawa, Marianas and Iwo. Iwo might not be needed and the Philippines should have enough shoreline to pick a spot. I am also not sure how reduced aviation support would play out. I'd hate to get into 1944 and find I don't have enough air support for a bombing campaign. With the brain trust involved in dababes, I imagine it is not a problem.

(in reply to Tanaka)

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/1/2022 9:32:28 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
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I'm engaged in DaBabes scenario 28 which uses the extended map and reduced cargo. I think the extended map is a great change as it allows for a few key geopolitical realities to be realized that the original map missed. Although the reduced cargo is supposed to slow the game down, I've not seen it as the Japanese player, however it's early days yet (mid Feb '42) and it might have a biting impact later on. Overall however, I really like this scenario.

(in reply to rockmedic109)

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/1/2022 10:23:04 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I'm engaged in DaBabes scenario 28 which uses the extended map and reduced cargo. I think the extended map is a great change as it allows for a few key geopolitical realities to be realized that the original map missed. Although the reduced cargo is supposed to slow the game down, I've not seen it as the Japanese player, however it's early days yet (mid Feb '42) and it might have a biting impact later on. Overall however, I really like this scenario.

That's 28-C. My favorite also!

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/2/2022 1:32:05 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
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Stock Scenario 1 here. It's the only one I've played in PBEM, other than a few trips through the Guadalcanal scenario.

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/2/2022 1:49:43 PM

kbfchicago

Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
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indirectly...DaBabes, I play a modified LST's Bottlenecks which is based on DaBabes with his adjustments. LST introduces allot of smaller units and some additional historical units. I've updated LST's startup. LST tweeted his start for rapid play, I prefer more historical start and randomly delayed mobilization of merchant ships (both sides). It actually also serves the purpose of making the initial turns easier, just in a different way. LST pre-positioned ships for easy assignment of initial orders. I slow the introduction of civilian merchants ships over the course of about 90-120 days. Reflecting for IJ the arming of merchants (no data, but my assumption is not every Japanese merchant ship was armed on 7 Dec 41....). Allied ships, which don't start armed, would have needed time to be mobilized, receive orders, et.al. Delays are shorter for ships in the immediate war zone (e.g. Philippines) and IJ mobilizes very quickly over the first couple of weeks. I also flattened some later mobilizations, spreading them out over time. Larger ships get mobilized before smaller ones (generally, some exceptions). Result is the first turn pain is spread out over the first 90 days or so. Again, no historical data to support this but as a guy who prefers to push the game to recognize historical constraints (where I can), I like it.

Also... I put (significantly) more ships out at sea, reflecting the civilian world was not "in port" on 7 Dec, but carrying on with their business as usual. It's been awhile since I did my last adjustment but I think I used all the available (initial setup) TFs for both sides...so lots of ships at sea.

< Message edited by kbfchicago -- 2/2/2022 1:58:44 PM >

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/2/2022 1:59:17 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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In general I like the mods that attempt to slow the pacing of the game down, even tried Asian Roads modifier to dababes.

Having completed a handful of pbems to the end, it is the players that determine the pacing, the mods not so much effect.

So pretty much now I pick just choose whether I want to play a scenario 1 or 2 type game, and don't care as much whether it is stock or not - often it comes down to my opponent selecting.

As Japan I prefer the great challenge of a Scenario 1 game. As the Allies, giving Japan the Scenario 2 benefits seems to work ok.

Against the AI, Nasty, Nasty.

(in reply to kbfchicago)

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/2/2022 7:03:15 PM

Q-Ball

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From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That's 28-C. My favorite also!

+1 on this for me

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/2/2022 7:50:30 PM

JanSako

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LST's Bottlenecks in the Pacific for me. (Based on DBB-c but even better!)

I am starting an SP campaign of Nasty Nasty too... I wonder how much over the top it will be.

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/3/2022 2:10:23 AM

Tanaka

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Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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Ok so far DaBigBabes C and modified DaBigBabes C (LST's Bottlenecks) seem to be the top choice.

Looking at Bottlenecks it does seem to be even more intense than DaBigBabes C! Woah!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/3/2022 4:23:20 PM

castor troy

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Been playing DaBigBabes scen 28 extended map ever since release

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/3/2022 5:09:08 PM

Yaab

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From: Poland
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Updated stock scenarios (001 and 007) all the way.

RHS mod is also great, however it is still unfinished.

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/3/2022 7:05:36 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Updated stock scenarios (001 and 007) all the way.

RHS mod is also great, however it is still unfinished.

I don't think Sid will ever finish the mod....GP

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/4/2022 8:06:50 PM

Tanaka

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So you guys got me interested in checking out LST's Bottlenecks mod as well:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

Lots of interesting stuff and changes here. I had a chuckle because so much fuss was raised over my forum question if Sonia's could dive bomb and I see he changed it in his mod so that they can:

4. The KI-51 is now a dive bomber with "Attack bomber" ability and armor even for the A model - the plane has been designed as ground attack airplane for both low-level and dive bombing. However, in the game anything lighter than 100kg bombs is pretty ineffective against troops in terrain other than "clear", and no Allied player worth his salt will keep troops in the open as long as Japan has air superiority. Best use for the Ki-51 and similar light bombers is hitting airfields or ports in order to prevent fort construction.

Don't understand why so much ruckus was made over the question if the Sonia really was a dive bomber?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Ki-51

Wonder why it was not made so in the base game?

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RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/5/2022 6:25:56 AM

Yaab

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I think it has to do with how the code handles dive bombing.

Download RHS mod, where Sonias and a host of other bombers are dive bombers, and watch how they mince-meat the Chinese sampan fleet and the UK destroyers off HK on turn one. With some training, Japanese have a murderous horde of IJA dive bombers.

The best compromise was the glide-bombing feature, which alas was disabled somewhere in year 2012 or 2013.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 2/5/2022 7:43:51 AM >

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 15

RE: Poll: DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs Andy Mac: Which do y... - 2/5/2022 7:13:12 PM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I think it has to do with how the code handles dive bombing.

Download RHS mod, where Sonias and a host of other bombers are dive bombers, and watch how they mince-meat the Chinese sampan fleet and the UK destroyers off HK on turn one. With some training, Japanese have a murderous horde of IJA dive bombers.

The best compromise was the glide-bombing feature, which alas was disabled somewhere in year 2012 or 2013.

Ah very interesting thanks!

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs LST's Bottlenecks vs Andy Mac: Which do you prefer?

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