Best alt for bombs & torp?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Best alt for bombs & torp?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Best alt for bombs & torp?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Best alt for bombs & torp? - 12/31/2021 6:53:30 AM

abulbulian

Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

So what is the verdict on best altitude to use bombs and torpedo? Does it differ by nation?

thanks

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

Post #: 1

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 12/31/2021 8:18:59 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

Nation has nothing to do with it. The answer, as always in this game is "It depends ..."

What type of target is it - fast and nimble or slow and ponderous - or static?
What kind of AAA is expected?
What size bombs can you carry?
What range can you make carrying bombs or torpedoes?
How vulnerable are your aircraft?
How easy is it to replace destroyed aircraft and pilots?
Is the target valuable enough to risk high losses?
At what altitude has the enemy been placing his CAP?
What fighter escort can you provide?
How good is your detection of the enemy?

I'm sure there are other questions that go into the mix, but you get my drift.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to abulbulian)

Post #: 2

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 12/31/2021 9:02:46 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

I generally use 15 000 ft for torpedo and dive bombers. It helps with coordination, especially if your fighters are set to same altitude.

Of course most of my fighters are at 20k..but still seem to work.

If you go too low with those bombers, you get extra flak trouble.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 12/31/2021 9:03:42 AM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 12/31/2021 10:10:42 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

So what is the verdict on best altitude to use bombs and torpedo? Does it differ by nation?

thanks

It does differ by nation as Japan's flak is usually pathetic, if you aren't going into a flak nest with lots of AA units. So attacking at 8000ft usually gets you above 25mm AA range and a couple of medium or heavy AA guns won't hurt you much. Allied flak is a different matter, Bofors are real killers so you have to stay at or above 9000ft depending on the mod if there are no heavier guns at the base. With heavier guns you have to go up, usually 15000ft or higher but then hit rates decrease.

Generally the lower you go in, the higher the hit rate but also the higher is the risk to get beaten by flak.

_____________________________

(in reply to abulbulian)

Post #: 4

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 12/31/2021 10:46:33 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

So what is the verdict on best altitude to use bombs and torpedo? Does it differ by nation?

thanks

It does differ by nation as Japan's flak is usually pathetic, if you aren't going into a flak nest with lots of AA units. So attacking at 8000ft usually gets you above 25mm AA range and a couple of medium or heavy AA guns won't hurt you much. Allied flak is a different matter, Bofors are real killers so you have to stay at or above 9000ft depending on the mod if there are no heavier guns at the base. With heavier guns you have to go up, usually 15000ft or higher but then hit rates decrease.

Generally the lower you go in, the higher the hit rate but also the higher is the risk to get beaten by flak.

Agree with Castor Troy.

My default altitude for level bombing where significant light flak is preset is 9k. 12k for dive bombers.

For 4Es hitting targets with significant heavy flak 12k to 15k is my standard setting.

When hitting ground troops in the field with only organic flak, I level bomb at 3k.

Level bombing naval targets provides very small returns so I typically go in at 3k and take the flak losses in the hope of getting some hits.

Torpedo bombing altitude only effects the trip to and from the target as the bombing is done at 200 feet so I typically set them close to the dive bomber altitude to make escort cover simpler.

Attack bombers and Fighter bombers go in at 1k regardless of flak cause that's what they are designed to do. Heavy flak losses results in a stand down not a move to higher altitude, as the pilots are not typically trained for higher altitude bombing.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/31/2021 10:50:53 AM >

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 5

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 1/2/2022 8:59:46 AM

clamel

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline

I really gotten confused by these altitudes and would love to see vets jump into this thread and start to tell their stories.
Searching around this forum has given hundreds of explaining and in many ways contradictions on best levels. But when you read one thread and goes to next it explains something different.
We got "skip" bombing, torpedo "transport"-levels that hopefully make them drop to lower levels when attacking. I heard some general 8000 feet was the best altitude in most cases. The strafe altitude with just cannons and FB dropping their load set at 100 feet took a while before I figured that one out.

I'm pretty new on this game so don't dare to say much more than I hope to see some kind of "diagram","spreadsheet" on what might be levels one should aim for (with some deviation).

As BBFanboy said it depends on so many factors, but beside the Manual (and Alfred) I haven't found a clear thread with all those altitudes lined up and explained. As we know the Manual is good, but in some cases not enough.

So if all good advices could be gathered in this thread it would be very very helpful, I guess not only newbie.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 6

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 1/2/2022 10:34:14 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

I really gotten confused by these altitudes and would love to see vets jump into this thread and start to tell their stories.
Searching around this forum has given hundreds of explaining and in many ways contradictions on best levels. But when you read one thread and goes to next it explains something different.
We got "skip" bombing, torpedo "transport"-levels that hopefully make them drop to lower levels when attacking. I heard some general 8000 feet was the best altitude in most cases. The strafe altitude with just cannons and FB dropping their load set at 100 feet took a while before I figured that one out.

I'm pretty new on this game so don't dare to say much more than I hope to see some kind of "diagram","spreadsheet" on what might be levels one should aim for (with some deviation).

As BBFanboy said it depends on so many factors, but beside the Manual (and Alfred) I haven't found a clear thread with all those altitudes lined up and explained. As we know the Manual is good, but in some cases not enough.

So if all good advices could be gathered in this thread it would be very very helpful, I guess not only newbie.

Basically, torpedo bombers drop to 200 ft no matter the altitude if equipped with torpedoes. Dive bombers dive to 2000-3000 ft if set to 10-15k ft. Basically, you want them to approach as high as possible to avoid initial flak, since you cannot avoid getting AAA in final attack phase.

Thus, I use 15k for both. It hampers Naval Search for CVs a bit, but not significantly. There is also some coordination benefits, being at same altitude.

As said, you win some, you lose some with your altitude selection. If you e.g. set your TB to 6000 ft and DB to 10k, they might arrive scattered, but your naval search might be better. There are quite a few variables in play.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to clamel)

Post #: 7

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 1/2/2022 11:10:31 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

Skip bombing is reflected by attack bombers not suffering low altitude penalties. That means setting them to 1000 or 100 feet. Attack bombers also fire their MG/Cannon to suppress AAA. Other bombers sent in that low only carry a half bomb load at normal range.

Glide bombing was originally coded, but was problematical, so MichaelM removed it in a patch. Bombers 2000 feet and above level bomb. Any reference in the documents you see to less than 6000 feet (edit: as in, being low altitude) is no longer correct.

Dive bombers dive between 10-15k feet, otherwise they level bomb. I have heard the dive bomb if set at 20-25k - can't say I ever tried that.

Torpedo bombers always descend to 200 feet to deploy their payload, regardless of what altitude you send them at.

Always set your escorting fighters to the same altitude as the bombers. There are other important determinants as to fighter groups providing co-ordinated escort, such as cruise speed delta, and command affiliation, but IME the altitude thing is important.

Fighter sweeps work best if set to highest possible altitude (no-brainer), but can be countered by layered CAP.

The reference to bombing between 8k and 10k feet relates to the perception of a "flak gap" ... there isn't really a flak gap per se, but the smaller caliber weapons don't get that high. I'll let someone else explain why 128mm flak guns are allegedly ineffective at 8k feet.

So, for a quick and dirty guide:

1) Set all carrier operations to 12k feet.

2) Either bomb (and always if at night) at 8k feet where there is not much defensive opposition, or stay up high. If the latter you generally won't hit squat, until your aircrew get their skill levels up very high.

3) Set sweeps to the highest possible altitude.

4) Use layered CAP.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 1/2/2022 3:13:52 PM >

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to clamel)

Post #: 8

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 1/2/2022 11:50:10 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

I restrict myself (I play only vs. AI) to use CAP and especially Sweeps with max. altitude as best MVR band.

There has been lot of interesting discussion about "strato-sweeps". Considering how fatiguing it is to fly in altitudes 25k and up (even when just part of the mission time), I consider it ahistorical and "bit gamey". But as said above post, layered CAP helps vs. it.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 9

RE: Best alt for bombs & torp? - 2/5/2022 9:58:08 PM

abulbulian

Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for helpful responses. Yes it was about the naval guns and not about the mines that were my issue.

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 10