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Refitting Pz divisions in '41

 
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Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 3:12:44 PM   
christenberryd

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		How do I get tanks to flow into a pz div in '41? Move into the theater reserve seems necessary, okay. Next, do I need exact same tank model in pool, or only type, as in any med tank will fill the medium tank toe, etc. Thanks!

Bonus question, how do you clear the pripet marshes as German? I have went around against ai, but against human opponent, what to do?
Post #: 1
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 6:38:30 PM   
RedJohn

 

Posts: 517
Joined: 9/20/2019
Status: offline 		Stuffing them on a priority 4 depot should work, no? Or maybe one needs to superdepot. I'm not sure about the TOE question.

The pripyat marshes are typically cleared by encircling it via taking gomel and kiev and linking up somewhere there. This then flips most of the enemy hexes to yours, saving the need to move units into them. Against a human you would use your security divisions to screen the flanks to ensure no crazy deep dives by enemy units.

(in reply to christenberryd)
Post #: 2
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 7:17:58 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		If I've got the mechanics well they're pretty hard to refit - there are some panzer divisions sitting in the West that syphon up the panzers produced rapidly -and- to ship real panzers to the front is mission impossible in '41.

BUT you can refit the non panzer component easily of an armoured division.

(in reply to RedJohn)
Post #: 3
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 7:29:50 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

If I've got the mechanics well they're pretty hard to refit - there are some panzer divisions sitting in the West that syphon up the panzers produced rapidly -and- to ship real panzers to the front is mission impossible in '41.

....


I realise this is the new thing to say everywhere but in the context of 1941 its pure tosh

quote:

ORIGINAL: christenberryd

How do I get tanks to flow into a pz div in '41? Move into the theater reserve seems necessary, okay. Next, do I need exact same tank model in pool, or only type, as in any med tank will fill the medium tank toe, etc. Thanks!

...


best is the reserve, if not a depot that has a lot of freight.

if you sort the production screen by type you'll see that quite a few things can fit into a given part of the TOE - go to the editor and you can see the full range of what can be substituted.

now the real problem is there are almost no replacement tanks available in 1941, again the production screen will show you both your per turn and accumulated stocks. So don't try to refit too many formations at the same time, best is to pick one or two and deploy as above - even then its likely to be slow

_____________________________


(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 4
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 7:50:16 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

Stuffing them on a priority 4 depot should work, no? Or maybe one needs to superdepot. I'm not sure about the TOE question.

The pripyat marshes are typically cleared by encircling it via taking gomel and kiev and linking up somewhere there. This then flips most of the enemy hexes to yours, saving the need to move units into them. Against a human you would use your security divisions to screen the flanks to ensure no crazy deep dives by enemy units.

I have places on a map that are still counted as Soviet territory despite being isolated for multiple turns. There are no Soviet units also. They will not auto convert for sure.(talking about my example)

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/8/2022 7:51:20 PM >

(in reply to RedJohn)
Post #: 5
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 7:50:44 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/8/2022 7:51:07 PM >

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 6
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 8:53:01 PM   
christenberryd

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Redjohn and Stamb. Okay, I cleared the marshes by turning left at Kiev ... just wondering because against human I'm uncomfortable with my small screen.

I agree with Stamb though, I think contested areas clear way too slowly. What the development missed in this regard is that by having support units attached, the German doesn't have enough units to go flip hexes. In reality, or OCS series boardgames (Case Blue by GMT), there are lots of tiny motorized German formations that could be used . This is just another drain, unrealistic imo, on the German player.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 7
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 9:07:10 PM   
christenberryd

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Loki. I might try reserve, I've ran so many experiments by now I was trying to move forward with the game.

Historically, sure, no Panzer reinforcements in '41. It's a nice optional rule though and might help play balance.

I haven't had much luck getting any tanks at any depot.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 8
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/8/2022 10:47:53 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		A good use of Security units is flipping marsh/swamp/forest hexes until they withdraw.

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(in reply to christenberryd)
Post #: 9
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/9/2022 2:22:01 AM   
gw15


Posts: 919
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		I believe the panzer arm in 1941 was starved of replacements on purpose so new divisions could be built up for future operations so maybe that's why it is hard to obtain replacement tanks. Perhaps the game is designed for that fact.
I may have misread this somewhere, but I think the real issue was the lack of tank engines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

If I've got the mechanics well they're pretty hard to refit - there are some panzer divisions sitting in the West that syphon up the panzers produced rapidly -and- to ship real panzers to the front is mission impossible in '41.

BUT you can refit the non panzer component easily of an armoured division.


(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 10
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/9/2022 8:25:08 AM   
Stephan61

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 3/3/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christenberryd

How do I get tanks to flow into a pz div in '41? Move into the theater reserve seems necessary, okay. Next, do I need exact same tank model in pool, or only type, as in any med tank will fill the medium tank toe, etc. Thanks!

Bonus question, how do you clear the pripet marshes as German? I have went around against ai, but against human opponent, what to do?


There are limited PZ available in 41, but the Reserve is a good place to put them.

Personally I play with full TB manual control and have refitted PZ Divs in WE as well as the Reserve. Putting the PZ on a large capacity depot (with an FBD Super Depot) will also provide a good replacement stream, but that might not be the best use of a FBD in 41.

As for the Marshes, well those SEC units are very good for that and with full TB control you can override the Withdraw from the Map until their work is complete, then flick them into the Garrison.

As with everything in this game, there are ways and means, but be careful to understand the flip side of your actions.

(in reply to christenberryd)
Post #: 11
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/9/2022 5:08:47 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		I can get Pz in NR or on depots but I cannot seem to easily attract trucks from anywhere and its April 42 now.

(in reply to Stephan61)
Post #: 12
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/10/2022 12:06:29 PM   
Winglet

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/28/2016
Status: offline 		Isn't putting tanks in reserve theatre strips them of trucks so to fill out on map divisions? When you put your tanks back on map they have no support trucks and are basically useless. This is the outcome in case of truck shortage of the whole army ofc but it's common and I don't think putting tanks in reserve is advisable.




< Message edited by Winglet -- 2/10/2022 12:07:11 PM >

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 13
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/10/2022 12:11:47 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Typically they do not. I never faced such an issue. But it might be possible as described here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5143815

That is why I will probably move panzers from TBs to reserve and only then on a map


< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/10/2022 12:12:09 PM >

(in reply to Winglet)
Post #: 14
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/10/2022 12:50:46 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Well its a bit confusing - on refit they should keep their trucks and ask for more wherever they are surely.

I have them on the map now and they are very short of trucks even standing on Berlin hex.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 15
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/10/2022 12:58:09 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I agree with you. Even not on refit they should keep trucks. And they do in my case. Maybe you can attach your saves to a thread that I gave link to, so devs can look onto it?

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 16
RE: Refitting Pz divisions in '41 - 2/10/2022 2:41:35 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Well I could ... but its quite simple

units that go to NR should not shed any trucks - thats pants.
Units on refit on a National supply source at the least should fill up with trucks
I have one of the french SS brigades come from NR without any trucks and then on refit in Berlin it still has 0 trucks about 5 turns later... grrrrrrrrrrr

My 42 offensive is stalled starting not because of Panzers or lack of truck - its just they will not go into the units.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 17
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