Disband is way too powerful

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Suggestions and Feedback >> Disband is way too powerful

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Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 1:35:37 PM

Voker57

Posts: 78
Joined: 9/19/2020
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By spending ~2 PP, you can instantly remove whole assets, leaving your enemy with nothing. Closing down assets is more realistic and balanced. Disbanding should be disabled, and possibly remade with much higher costs and preparation needed.

Post #: 1

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 1:49:35 PM

Disturbance20

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/9/2022
Status: offline

Agreed, no need for this and too easy in multiplayer to destroy the entire city at the last moment before capture. Destroying an entire city's worth of buildings should be more difficult.

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Post #: 2

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 2:45:15 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

in mp just make a house rule.

(in reply to Disturbance20)

Post #: 3

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 3:11:16 PM

Voker57

Posts: 78
Joined: 9/19/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

in mp just make a house rule.

You already have to have a whole separate house manual for MP. Anyway, why not just fix it for everybody?

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 4

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 3:14:22 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

Some people might like it

(in reply to Voker57)

Post #: 5

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 3:53:34 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

I hear you. I guess maybe I could make the PP cost a bit higher. Other idea might be it should have accrued some damage to having been closed for a couple of turns. I'll give it some thought.

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Post #: 6

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/9/2022 4:11:37 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I hear you. I guess maybe I could make the PP cost a bit higher. Other idea might be it should have accrued some damage to having been closed for a couple of turns. I'll give it some thought.

The issue is that as building HS Rail works right now, we must be able to scrap the Railway station.

Woul be less of a issue if we could "sidegrade" from Normal to HS rail. Or if HS rail was a track thing.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 7

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 5:50:18 AM

Elver

Posts: 114
Joined: 6/25/2020
Status: offline

At a minimum, you should have to have control of an asset for a turn to disband it (i.e., make it work like razing roads). Right now if you can hold an asset for any time at all you can disband it entirely if you have the PP to do so. There's something to be said for raiding and sabotaging but this seems excessively strong.

Something that could possibly work is drastically increasing PP costs per subsequent level per turn, so if you draw it out it would be reasonable but it'd be ruinous to take it all down at once.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 8

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 6:28:03 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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There are currently tow purposes for that System:
1. Removing something the Private Economy build that you do not want (there)
2. Removing Basic Railstations so you can upgrade to Highspeed Rail Stations

At least for 2, it working quickly is mandatory.

Also if the enemy can get close enough to your city that he can capture, hold and scrap the asset he propably deserved that success.

(in reply to Elver)

Post #: 9

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 7:50:10 AM

Voker57

Posts: 78
Joined: 9/19/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

There are currently tow purposes for that System:
1. Removing something the Private Economy build that you do not want (there)
2. Removing Basic Railstations so you can upgrade to Highspeed Rail Stations

At least for 2, it working quickly is mandatory.

Also if the enemy can get close enough to your city that he can capture, hold and scrap the asset he propably deserved that success.

It's not about the enemy, it's about somebody scrapping all the assets in city in one turn to deny them to the enemy.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 8:10:02 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voker57

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

There are currently tow purposes for that System:
1. Removing something the Private Economy build that you do not want (there)
2. Removing Basic Railstations so you can upgrade to Highspeed Rail Stations

At least for 2, it working quickly is mandatory.

Also if the enemy can get close enough to your city that he can capture, hold and scrap the asset he propably deserved that success.

It's not about the enemy, it's about somebody scrapping all the assets in city in one turn to deny them to the enemy.

I admit this is a issue.

They had the same in numerous other games, like Civilisations and Stellaris. Their best Idea was to turn off Planet/City trading while at war. However the game had repeated issues with Warstates sticking around long after the enemy was wiped of the map - so experience taught us that is propably the wrong way. Bad enough when Vassaal Card are locked out.

That realy only leaves a option to turn it off completely in MP via a option. But that would be coriest core mechanic to ever have been put on such switch. It fixes too many other issues to miss.

MP houserule are about the only way right now.

(in reply to Voker57)

Post #: 11

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 2:27:37 PM

Elver

Posts: 114
Joined: 6/25/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Also if the enemy can get close enough to your city that he can capture, hold and scrap the asset he propably deserved that success.

The point is that they don't need to hold it to scrap it. They just need to capture it. To combine two threads of discussion, if there's a front where you're having a back-and-forth battle, if you can capture (or recapture) something you can't hold long-term, you can swiftly and easily destroy it to deny it to the enemy. This is not necessarily unrealistic, but it's what is being complained about here.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 12

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 3:33:02 PM

zgrssd

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elver

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Also if the enemy can get close enough to your city that he can capture, hold and scrap the asset he propably deserved that success.

The point is that they don't need to hold it to scrap it. They just need to capture it. To combine two threads of discussion, if there's a front where you're having a back-and-forth battle, if you can capture (or recapture) something you can't hold long-term, you can swiftly and easily destroy it to deny it to the enemy. This is not necessarily unrealistic, but it's what is being complained about here.

Yes, I understand what you are talking.
Yes, I understand it is a problem.

But to fix a host of other issues, Disband as we have it now is nessesary.

(in reply to Elver)

Post #: 13

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/10/2022 5:29:57 PM

eddieballgame

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
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Maybe a poll to see what would be a 'fair fix'.
Per multiplayer, a 'house rule' (as suggested) seems fine.
Personally, I don't see it as an issue, & in my multiple 'MP' games this has never presented it self as a problem; but increasing the 'PP' costs seems like a reasonable penalty as Vic suggested.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 14

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/11/2022 12:53:31 AM

Moat_Man

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Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline

If you are talking only about assets in a city that's one thing but I immediately disband higher level captured buildings out in the field so that my workers from the nearby zone don't get siphoned off. It can really mess with your logistics if you capture a Level IV Farm with 10's of thousands of workers required. Better to disband it immediately and get the resources refund than to try an absorb those things.

(in reply to eddieballgame)

Post #: 15

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/14/2022 12:14:51 PM

Culthrasa

Posts: 189
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: offline

I very much welcomed the ability to scrap assets. The AI builds lvl1 stuff nilly willy and it's a pain in de butt. Being able to remove them in a timely fashion is very welcome in SP.

The question raised here is for MP and its potential abuse. On the other hand, IRL it is more then doable (and frequently done) to place a few satchel charges and blow up a bridge or factory. Countless examples in WW2 alone. So being able to quickly demolish an asset near the frontline to deny it to your enemy seems perfectly fine to me.

Only thing that remains is the fact that the player gets some material back. But since no one raised that particular point (unless i missed something) that doesn't seem to be the problem..

just my 2cents... :)

(in reply to Moat_Man)

Post #: 16

RE: Disband is way too powerful - 2/22/2022 8:59:24 PM

Dogetor

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/16/2021
Status: offline

Maybe destroying assets should be made by workers or troops over time?

(in reply to Culthrasa)

Post #: 17