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toodle pip - 2/10/2022 8:00:08 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		When you read things like this

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToxicThug11


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


exactly, with the type of comments above, this thread is better locked before someone goes too far (& I think there are too many insults already from people who really should know better)


Dont fall off your high horse ;)

Thread doesnt need to be locked as it kills the discussion that was productive before certain people chipped in. I wont be commenting anymore so no need to worry.

Your posts are a pleasure to read and are a breath of fresh air. You would think these guys are still on Stalin's payroll.



add on constant comments like this

quote:

ORIGINAL: SauronII

...

Too bad you were not tasked to write the section in the user manual covering this.


gems like

quote:

Well this time I will not back down from Loki & will call him out at every opportunity


and I never claim to be an expert player - but try to remember that 90+% of games are vs the AI and the great majority of players actually only play AI, so not sure why this had to be said

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
... Knowing the rules and all the idiosyncrasies in the manual does not make a good ground commander. ...


but then people think its perfectly ok to put PMs onto the forum.

To this, I could add the near endless stream of abusive PMs.

At the moment the tone of this forum is awful, not everyone (of course) but a group of you seemed to have lost much sense of proportion. When a couple of you start demanding that one of the 2 coders must read your particular question or analyse the latest innovative bit of game play then you may be being a bit over-entitled? Its, too me, pretty ridiculous, especially given the level of practical engagement by the development team across the forum (& on Steam). Despite the endless whinging, the game was not designed by some secretive pro-Soviet cabal, I think a lot of the Axis complaints are to do with not actually using the tools presented.

The lets put the LW in the reserve gambit means you are not getting low level interdiction, but then feel free to complain that admin movement leaves the Soviets too mobile.

so the next time one of the experts comes up with a gem like

quote:

IF anything is < 30 hexes of the level 2+ Railyard that Railyard capacity may be utilized to move the freight. Think of the Level 2 Railyard as "Train Engines" to move the rail cars(freight). Thus a level 2+ Railyard of Lvov can move that freight to a depot within 30 hexes and then a level 2+ Railyard at Kiev could pick up(send train engines) that frieght (rail cars) and continue to move that freight on the rail (using rail capacity of the track) on down the line to the highest destination depot number on the rail line. That is why you will see freight received from Berlin on some of these depots that are deep in the Soviet Union. At least that is how I visualize it and may be 100% wrong but seems very right to me in the workings


then I don't particularly feel much urge to try and get it corrected - and enough of you found it convincing because, of course, its easier to believe the 'game is broken'?

Anyway purely for me, I'm not posting anywhere apart from in the few AARs I find interesting for some time - just not worth it in terms of my mental health as much as everything else.

So thank you to 'Toxic Thug' that post really did just tip me out the door. I could have probably exceeded the post word limit if I included all the snippy comments and abuse casually dumped on me - by a relatively small group.

Roger

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Post #: 1
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 8:23:52 AM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		Hi loki100.

Time to get some rest, and perhaps play any of the Ageod games you like?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 2
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 8:36:16 AM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		loki100

Why would you take that messages so close to a heart? It is just a game, relax.
Why are you not looking on all of the "thank you" messages that people write when they get an answer from you? I am sure there are 10x or 20x more of them.
But people tend to remember only the worst things.

Actually I am surprised that there are no fanboys (almost) who participate in holy wars to determine who is the best, Soviets vs Axis or like on other forums: IOS vs Android, Barca vs Real, Linux vs Windows, Intel vs AMD, etc

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/10/2022 8:37:06 AM >

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 3
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 9:06:13 AM   
ToxicThug11


Posts: 67
Joined: 9/2/2021
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I apologize for experiencing pleasure when reading xhoel's well written posts. I was not coming at you. I'm not part of a shadowy pro-German cabal, infact I very much enjoy Soviets. I deny all existence of the pro-German cabal. I hope you will stay and continue to help new players.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 10:14:56 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline 		Sorry to see this loki.

Hope to see you back soon, your contributions and advice are very much appreciated from my end at least and I'm sure also from numerous other forum readers who may be less vocal than some of the 'regulars' who have been on your back.

(in reply to ToxicThug11)
Post #: 5
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 10:53:20 AM   
Fraggo5


Posts: 46
Joined: 3/24/2021
From: Peterborough U.K
Status: offline 		Loki , take some time out and return when you feel like it, you have helped a lot of people on this forum with sound advice in the past and I look forward to your return .
I echo others sentiments regarding the vocal few who at times step over boundaries leaving you feeling the way you do at present.
Take care

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 6
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 11:12:30 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear that my friend

You know my thoughts on these things too. I do think there's too much vitriol (in general and obviously it's a minority of people rather than everyone and in every topic) in this general/public forum. It's a shame as I can only imagine what casual/new readers must think when they see all these posts about it's "pro-this" or "pro-that", "ridiculous! It must be broken" etc etc. It's tiring to read all these comments tbh and they MASSIVELY detract from what is an astounding achievement of a game. As I said in Loki's and my AAR is it perfect? Of course not but 95% of it is an incredible simulation (IMO). People post extreme views on the few bits that aren't then it's all new people see....nice work detracting new players to the game which will ultimately affect future profit and the chance of new games which you all apparently love and enjoy....

I too went offline months back after receiving 4 abusive/negative PM's from people criticising my play. It's just not needed. I still post here but rarely read these general forum posts anymore as it's a 75% guarantee that it will either be negative/biased/extreme/incorrect etc. Just not worth it. Luckily the wonderful 'red button' works and I've enjoyed using that on some people....

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WitE Tester
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(in reply to Fraggo5)
Post #: 7
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 11:32:06 AM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Don't let the haters getcha down.

However, if you DO decide you want to form a cabal or join an existing one, let me know and I can hook you up.

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 8
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 12:19:07 PM   
FriedrichII

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/16/2021
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I am very sorry to hear this.
I remember that you helped me a lot answering my quick questions and I always find your texts very helpful.
I also like the manual.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 9
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 12:49:20 PM   
Gunnulf


Posts: 686
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear that mate, you are right it can get a bit uncomfortably heated sometimes but didn't realise some PMs flying about too. It is a game but some where folks do invest significant time I feel people can get hot. You are very much appreciated for endless help and advise and hope to read more insight again. But it's your time and you can do what you want with it, when you want of course. Not every wrong has to be righted!

< Message edited by Gunnulf -- 2/10/2022 12:50:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to FriedrichII)
Post #: 10
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 12:54:22 PM   
comte


Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		I think the biggest problem with this game is most of the players played the first game and never adapted to the new rule set. I believe this is the source of alot of the issues. I guess the real problem is that there is a war in the East 1.

Also I believe piles of abuse on devs and testers is what led to alot of the witp ae guys calling it quits.

< Message edited by comte -- 2/10/2022 12:58:37 PM >

_____________________________

But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 11
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 1:47:09 PM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FriedrichII

I am very sorry to hear this.
I remember that you helped me a lot answering my quick questions and I always find your texts very helpful.
I also like the manual.



The manual is a masterpiece.

I wonder whether there is a better one in wargaming history.



(in reply to FriedrichII)
Post #: 12
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 2:41:12 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Take some time off. Put things in perspective.

Makes me miss the days of paper map and cardboard counter wargames ... where you had to actually be there in person. If you said some of the things that you regularly see in the on-line forums you'd have probably gotten kicked in the balls.

People behave much better face-to-face. The anonymous nature of on-line forums gives an unfortunate license for bad behavior to people who would cringe and cower in real life.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 13
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 2:44:08 PM   
MaB1708

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 8/13/2006
From: Freiburg(Germany)
Status: offline 		Clearly there is a number of players here (albeit being much more knowledgeable as I am, my time spent on this is limited and I have not studied the war as indepth as some here have) that do lack the ability to phrase their criticism, proposals etc. in a grown-up manner, a manner that refrains from personal attacks and a somewhat constantly taunting and negative tone.
It steps on my nerves for weeks now, little children complaining that their christmas present is blue not red.
Again, in most of the discussions I have nothing to add, I am reading and learning from all of you and ask a question every now and then - answered by all you experts.
But there are people here recently that - by accident, by bad command of the language they use, by character - spam the forums with negativity and personal affronts as if they are arguing for their life.
I understand and see your passion, but you use inappropriate means. My interest in visiting this forum has declined over the last weeks. At times I wish you Waldorfs & Statlers would just go away and hate the game on your own (and we know who you are).
If this immature, grim, rude behaviour now forces a super-helpful resource like Loki into a hiatus I do wish that others would leave instead. You forgot this is a simulation still, a game, a hobby.
Thank you,
Martin


(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 14
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 4:00:00 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		All I want to know Loki is, what the **** is a "toodle pip"? Never heard that term before.

(in reply to MaB1708)
Post #: 15
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 4:02:30 PM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		I also had to search for the meaning of it


Apparently it just means Good-bye.



Oxford English Dictionary:


toodle-oo, int. colloq.

(tuːd(ə)lˈuː)

[Origin unknown; perh. f. toot n.2]

Goodbye. Cf. pip-pip.

   1907 Punch 26 June 465 ‘Toodle-oo, old sport.’ Mr. Punch turned round at the amazing words and gazed at his companion.    1908 T. E. Lawrence Let. 16 Aug. (1938) 62 Tootle 'oo. e.l.    1931 D. L. Sayers Five Red Herrings vi. 64 Well, toodle-oo!    1960 [see blot n.1 1 c].    1981 R. Barnard Sheer Torture xi. 121 I'll be downstairs. Toodle-oo.

Also {toodle-}, tootle-pip.

   1977 A. C. H. Smith Jericho Gun v. 67 Well, tootle-pip for now.    1983 Standard 26 Oct. 23 (heading) Toodlepip to the poor British Exec.




< Message edited by Nikel -- 2/10/2022 4:09:45 PM >

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 16
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 6:13:26 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Yup…see you later…ciao….etc

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(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 17
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 6:15:32 PM   
Zebtucker12


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/8/2017
Status: offline 		I also enjoy xhoels posts but its sad to see the kulik lobby claim another victim.
I hope you will soon again be active in
the Q&A thread helping the new players

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 18
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 6:24:00 PM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		More persons had to leave the forum because of some kind of "bullying"?

What is going on in this forum, where are the moderators?


(in reply to Zebtucker12)
Post #: 19
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 6:30:27 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I think ToxicThug11 was saying it in a joking manner. No need to take anything that people say/write about you so personally. It is just a game and a way to have a good time. Same about a forum.
If somebody want's to say how bad I am and/or send some angry PM - I welcome all.

Hopefully loki will have a good rest and comeback. It is impossible to describe how valuable his answer were for me, when I just started to play this game. And even after the start I have some questions about X/Y and most of the time loki gives an answer here, and Joel in a tech support area.

Huge thanks to them and other people for responses

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 20
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 6:34:36 PM   
Zebtucker12


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/8/2017
Status: offline 		I was not refering to bullying but the way the kulik lobby plays the soviets. And it was mostly a joke to lighten up this sad event.

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 21
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 8:25:54 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

More persons had to leave the forum because of some kind of "bullying"?

What is going on in this forum, where are the moderators?



Other than Matrix employees there is me and Joel. Joel is focussed on game development and I have a hugely busy day job and since release you can see I have posted very rarely and have also stepped away from any game development. I only step in when asked or incensed. Well here I am...

I feel the same as Roger (loki100). The behaviour of a vocal minority on this forum is caustic. However, in most instances, it falls short of requiring active moderation. When I have stepped in I too have been subject to PM abuse. I'm not afraid to take on a challenge - Pelton, Hanny and Sauron II no longer post having chosen to cross me.

Some may know that I have been a military policeman for almost 30 years and here's the rub - successful policing only operates in a consensual environment. The poor behaviour persists because the community is too tolerant of those whose attitude is unacceptable. It's your forum.

I'll make this observation for those who find aspects of the game frustrating and want to see things changed: rude ranting, rabble rousing and egotistical posturing on this forum is way less effective than empirical evidence (with saves) that Joel, Gary and Pavel can use to decide on appropriate changes and adjust the code.





_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 22
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 8:48:44 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		As a guy who's been known to rant, I've found that being inside the house is a much better place to make change. If you love the game more than the sound of your own voice, listen to Red.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 23
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 9:13:54 PM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Loki, look forward to maybe having you back some day.

I appreciate all of your help and assistance.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 24
RE: toodle pip - 2/10/2022 9:30:15 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

More persons had to leave the forum because of some kind of "bullying"?

What is going on in this forum, where are the moderators?



Other than Matrix employees there is me and Joel. Joel is focussed on game development and I have a hugely busy day job and since release you can see I have posted very rarely and have also stepped away from any game development. I only step in when asked or incensed. Well here I am...

I feel the same as Roger (loki100). The behaviour of a vocal minority on this forum is caustic. However, in most instances, it falls short of requiring active moderation. When I have stepped in I too have been subject to PM abuse. I'm not afraid to take on a challenge - Pelton, Hanny and Sauron II no longer post having chosen to cross me.

Some may know that I have been a military policeman for almost 30 years and here's the rub - successful policing only operates in a consensual environment. The poor behaviour persists because the community is too tolerant of those whose attitude is unacceptable. It's your forum.

I'll make this observation for those who find aspects of the game frustrating and want to see things changed: rude ranting, rabble rousing and egotistical posturing on this forum is way less effective than empirical evidence (with saves) that Joel, Gary and Pavel can use to decide on appropriate changes and adjust the code.







Just FWIW I've seen nothing on the public forum that strikes me as 'crossing the line'. I think loki deserves a bit of a break given that since release he has been by far the most visible 'establishment' presence on here which in turn has meant that at times he has been a bit of a lightning rod for some of peoples concerns about game balance etc (just to be clear that by saying that I don't intend any criticism of the Devs/moderation team). I hope that he is able to recharge his batteries and return soon in a more positive frame of mind.

Obviously I've not been party to anything that has been going on via PM - taking what you and loki are saying at face value it's a real shame that some individuals are abusing that anonymity but I have confidence that the forum staff will take the appropriate action.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 25
RE: toodle pip - 2/11/2022 6:56:22 AM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for answering Redlancer.

I do not agree in one aspect, that this is a gamers forum. It is matrix games’, with their rules.

The same way certain view of women is not allowed anymore (it happened in WitP-AE or in a thread in the general forum).

Bullying or burning is something game developers must not investigate. It is in the department of Matrix moderation.

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 26
RE: toodle pip - 2/11/2022 11:56:40 AM   
wkuh

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/16/2017
Status: offline 		Oh my! Please don't Loki100.

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 27
RE: toodle pip - 2/11/2022 12:52:07 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		Tough times don't last, but tough people do. Loki, I don't post a lot here but I read everything and your posts are always informative and sincere. Always remember that there is a silent majority like myself who appreciate what you contribute. Unfortunately, in the internet age, people feel entitled to say whatever they want, things they wouldn't have the guts to say to someone face to face. Just ignore them and accept the gratitude from those of us who appreciate what you do. Cheers.

(in reply to wkuh)
Post #: 28
RE: toodle pip - 2/11/2022 1:15:54 PM   
Thogode


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/8/2011
From: North Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

Tough times don't last, but tough people do. Loki, I don't post a lot here but I read everything and your posts are always informative and sincere. Always remember that there is a silent majority like myself who appreciate what you contribute. Unfortunately, in the internet age, people feel entitled to say whatever they want, things they wouldn't have the guts to say to someone face to face. Just ignore them and accept the gratitude from those of us who appreciate what you do. Cheers.


Well said. I fully agree with you and hope that the very helpful Loki would be back soon.

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 29
RE: toodle pip - 2/11/2022 1:51:14 PM   
jasonbroomer

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/10/2022
Status: offline 		I really appreciate all the comments that Loki has made in these forums (as well as developing such a great game).

I have spent the last couple of weeks ploughing through many of the threads and always take extra special notice of any of Loki's comments/answers. A total guru

I'm infuriated that some cack handed clown has written something (doubtless without thinking) and hurt you so!

(in reply to Thogode)
Post #: 30
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