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Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 6:21:42 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline 		Hello, I am totally new to this board and I have 2 question about WITP AE.

1. About building ship, can you build new warships ? Are they limited from an historical list (and once the list is complete you cant build more) or if you decide you can launch the building of 5 CV Zuikaku/shokaku class ?

2 How does War in the pacific AE compete with war plan ? the latest strategy game is WITP more detailled and overall better or is just warplan a 2019 upgrade of the old 2008 witp ?

Thanks for your help.
Post #: 1
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 6:59:20 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

Hello, I am totally new to this board and I have 2 question about WITP AE.

1. About building ship, can you build new warships ? Are they limited from an historical list (and once the list is complete you cant build more) or if you decide you can launch the building of 5 CV Zuikaku/shokaku class ?

2 How does War in the pacific AE compete with war plan ? the latest strategy game is WITP more detailled and overall better or is just warplan a 2019 upgrade of the old 2008 witp ?

Thanks for your help.


1. Yes. By default all ships (merchant and military) are built on their historical build day. If you go to the intel screen (I) to see ship availability. At game start, under realism you can change when these ships arrive as reinforcements. This applies to both side.

For the Japanese ONLY the same intel screen also allows them to halt (delay), accelerate or stop (never built) individual ships being built.

2. Warpaln, absolutely no idea never played it but as I understand warplan has nothing to do with WitP. WitP AE is the ungraded vesion of WitP.


< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 2/12/2022 7:01:16 AM >

(in reply to DavidKittens)
Post #: 2
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 7:09:21 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


1. Yes. By default all ships (merchant and military) are built on their historical build day. If you go to the intel screen (I) to see ship availability. At game start, under realism you can change when these ships arrive as reinforcements. This applies to both side.

For the Japanese ONLY the same intel screen also allows them to halt (delay), accelerate or stop (never built) individual ships being built.

2. Warpaln, absolutely no idea never played it but as I understand warplan has nothing to do with WitP. WitP AE is the ungraded vesion of WitP.



So if I understand good you can not build any warship out of the historical list ? And are by exemple for the CV forced to end up with the BB and CA crappy conversion for the Empire of Japan while the USA can Build the endless list of Essex class CV ....

I ask as I havent purchased the game yet... still it is sold 75 euros... and Well I'm not too eager to invest such in a game not really allowing us to expand the Empire of Japan with worthy ship... but are in a way forced with the crappy one even we can turn the progress of war in our advantage... Not saying that I want to create new ship line but just that Iwould like to know if it is possible to build more ship of a said class than those historically build.. By exemple : 5 CV of Shokaku zuikaku class instead of the two historical.

Just asking because if so I can not see how Japan Empire can end up winning the war as it will be outnumbered and outclassed.


< Message edited by DavidKittens -- 2/12/2022 7:31:00 AM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 3
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 7:35:11 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


1. Yes. By default all ships (merchant and military) are built on their historical build day. If you go to the intel screen (I) to see ship availability. At game start, under realism you can change when these ships arrive as reinforcements. This applies to both side.

For the Japanese ONLY the same intel screen also allows them to halt (delay), accelerate or stop (never built) individual ships being built.

2. Warpaln, absolutely no idea never played it but as I understand warplan has nothing to do with WitP. WitP AE is the ungraded vesion of WitP.



So if I understand good you can not build any warship out of the historical list ? And are by exemple for the CV forced to end up with the BB and CA crappy conversion for the Empire of Japan while the USA can Build the endless list of Essex class CV ....

I ask as I havent purchased the game yet... still it is sold 75 euros... and Well I'm not too eager to invest such in a game not really allowing us to expand the Empire of Japan with worthy ship... but are in a way forced with the crappy one even we can turn the progress of war in our advantage... Not saying that I want to create new ship line but just that Iwould like to know if it is possible to build more ship of a said class than those historically build.. By exemple : 5 CV of Shokaku zuikaku class instead of the two historical.

Just asking because if so I can see how Japan Empire can end up winning the war as it will but outnumbered.



It's an historical wargame so no, you cannot make up your own warships if that's what you mean. You can however stop ships upgrading.

Yes it's expensive but it also often goes on sale. If you look at the size of the forum you should appreciate just have well played the game is. If Japan could not win then this game would have petered out a looong time ago.

Japan can win both against the AI and PBEM but the odds, as there were historically, are stacked against them.

(in reply to DavidKittens)
Post #: 4
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 7:41:59 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I should add that there are a mods that do change what ships appear but I don't know to what extent.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 5
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 9:09:44 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline 		As long as we are with question about editing . Is there a way to edit some data like the ressources generated and increase those ressource.. be it oil or the other material ressource... Not saying the Heavy and light industries but the natural ressources generated.

Thanks.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 6
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 9:15:03 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I've never done any editing but there is an editor and I beleive you can edit anything but only before a scenario starts. You cannot edit anything after.

(in reply to DavidKittens)
Post #: 7
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 9:30:34 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

As long as we are with question about editing . Is there a way to edit some data like the ressources generated and increase those ressource.. be it oil or the other material ressource... Not saying the Heavy and light industries but the natural ressources generated.

Thanks.


Yes, for example, in the editor you could edit or add new oil centers to each base and city in Japan (or anywhere else for that matter). Refineries as well.

< Message edited by Platoonist -- 2/12/2022 9:31:03 AM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 8
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 9:46:27 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens


I ask as I havent purchased the game yet... still it is sold 75 euros... and Well I'm not too eager to invest such in a game not really allowing us to expand the Empire of Japan with worthy ship... but are in a way forced with the crappy one even we can turn the progress of war in our advantage... Not saying that I want to create new ship line but just that Iwould like to know if it is possible to build more ship of a said class than those historically build.. By exemple : 5 CV of Shokaku zuikaku class instead of the two historical.

Just asking because if so I can not see how Japan Empire can end up winning the war as it will be outnumbered and outclassed.



Frankly, against the Allied AI in WITP AE you can handily win as Japan even with her historical resource handicaps. However, against a human opponent it's far more difficult.

War Plan Pacific does allow you to alter builds but you are limited by a force pool, and even in that game carriers tie up a huge number of shipyard points and take a very long time to build.


_____________________________


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Post #: 9
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:10:21 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

As long as we are with question about editing . Is there a way to edit some data like the ressources generated and increase those ressource.. be it oil or the other material ressource... Not saying the Heavy and light industries but the natural ressources generated.

Thanks.


Yes, for example, in the editor you could edit or add new oil centers to each base and city in Japan (or anywhere else for that matter). Refineries as well.



Good so I guess you can add oil centre, ressource centre and Human centre... Thats great. Another question as I have understood you are limited on the historical warship to build... no extra yamato and such... Is it the same for submarine ? Are you also limited in the number of fighter/bomber you can build ?

Yeah I know I ask many question but that's to avoid throwing 75 buck in a game i may find limited.

And a big thanks for all those answers

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 10
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:16:26 AM   
Nami Koshino


Posts: 100
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Salem, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist



Frankly, against the Allied AI in WITP AE you can handily win as Japan even with her historical resource handicaps. However, against a human opponent it's far more difficult.



I had a similar experience. As Japan I won an auto-victory by the end of 1942 and never even saw a single Essex class carrier. Or any Corsairs for that matter. I noticed at the end of the game that the Allied AI does seem to keep a lot of ships and subs in port.

This game does burn up a lot of time though. At the one day a turn option it is a real deep time sink to play all the way through.

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 11
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:25:52 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens


Good so I guess you can add oil centre, ressource centre and Human centre... Thats great. Another question as I have understood you are limited on the historical warship to build... no extra yamato and such... Is it the same for submarine ? Are you also limited in the number of fighter/bomber you can build ?

Yeah I know I ask many question but that's to avoid throwing 75 buck in a game i may find limited.

And a big thanks for all those answers


No. Other than accelerating construction you can't build more ships or submarines than Japan built during the actual conflict. Air groups are the same. However, you can crank out more properly trained pilots, which is really the area where Japan fell down historically.

But overall this isn't a "sandbox" game. Other than in the editor (where the sky is the limit) you are pretty much constrained to historical construction.

_____________________________


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Post #: 12
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:38:59 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline 		Good so no production of 5000 GYM4 betty bombers just the historically ones... Ok ok I see that helps me to define the game on a better way.


(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 13
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:43:40 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

Is it the same for submarine ?



As it is, Japan receives 164 submarines of various types in the course of the game. With none of the historical constraints that the Japanese put on their use against merchant shipping. I don't know what I'd do with additional subs as I find even that number a bit overwhelming.


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Post #: 14
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 10:56:07 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

Good so no production of 5000 GYM4 betty bombers just the historically ones... Ok ok I see that helps me to define the game on a better way.




Actually, as Japan you do have a lot of leeway in actual aircraft production. You can choose to accelerate research and development of advanced aircraft types albeit at a substantial cost in industrial resources. Perhaps get the vaunted George or Frank fighter planes into action sooner than was done historically.The Allies are denied this advantage which has always been a bit of a bone of contention.

_____________________________


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Post #: 15
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 11:08:13 AM   
DavidKittens

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/12/2022
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist


quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens

Is it the same for submarine ?



As it is, Japan receives 164 submarines of various types in the course of the game. With none of the historical constraints that the Japanese put on their use against merchant shipping. I don't know what I'd do with additional subs as I find even that number a bit overwhelming.



Well I do see some use.... but as I wont be able to have more I wont tell.

I guess it is the same rule for land unit you cant really overequip them....

I can do with those limitation.

Maybe last question but surely not least any "Must Have" mod ?

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 16
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 11:21:40 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens



Maybe last question but surely not least any "Must Have" mod ?



My only mods of choice for me have been the map art mods. You spend a great deal of time staring at that huge map of the Pacific so I tend to switch between various map mods for a little variety. They don't change the overall game at all, but do provide a little eye candy.

There are a lot of custom built scenarios. There is one called The Reluctant Admiral which supposes Admiral Yamamoto had a greater hand in Japan's prewar construction. So Japan cancels the Yamato-class battleships outright and builds some improved Shokaku-class carriers and Kawachi-class battle cruisers instead. There were other changes included in that scenario as well, but that's off the top of my head. There are also mods like Bottlenecks in the Pacific which limit ship carrying capacity and give the starting bases less size and growth potential to slow the overall pace of the game down to more historical levels.

_____________________________


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Post #: 17
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 11:32:25 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard Davidkitten. One thing, don't worry about mods right away. Learn the game first. At least enough to play, then add mods. And if you love a deep and compelling game this is for you....GP

< Message edited by btd64 -- 2/12/2022 11:33:08 AM >

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 18
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 11:45:19 AM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		1. The game goes on sale for as low as $16, which is what I paid late last year.

2. This game is a HUGE time sink, meaning it takes literally days to set up for a Grand Campaign. If you're not willing to make that kind of commitment, you probably will want to stick to scenarios.

3. This link for me is a must and helped me make the game playable on my PC. I would highly recommend you read it first thing if you buy the game. If you want to tackle the grand campaign, I also highly recommend using Kull's allied/japan set up spread sheets as a kind of tutorial.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4916799

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 19
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 12:22:19 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I actually was also initially put off by the fact that I couldn't build any a-historic ships or have as many planes as I want.
On my side I came mostly from the hearts of iron series where it is normal to build anything you want and when you want it.
I felt restricted at first in what I was able to do, but later learned to love those restrictions.

Something the game teaches you is that you have to make do with what you have and if what you have is inferior to what your opponent has, you need to get creative.
The good thing about this game is that it has the complexity for you to be able to get creative.
On the contrary, I always thought that the average pinnacle of strategic thinking in hearts of iron was to hope that your opponent made a mistake in the tech tree and you could just walk over his troops.

I play this game nearly daily for two years now and am still not bored by it.
Something that I would like to add to actrade's list is that you need to like micromanagement.
If you don't then the game will get tedious for you very quickly.
If you are a fan of micromanaging stuff, you are in for a treat.

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 20
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 12:26:51 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that you can mod the game to have whatever you want, to a point. You just have to take into account the Japanese economy. It has to be adjusted to support your new toys....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 21
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 12:42:43 PM   
Torplexed


Posts: 305
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidKittens



2 How does War in the pacific AE compete with war plan ?



War Plan Pacific is designed to be much more abstracted like an old-fashioned board war game played with dice and counters. As an example, a cruiser group counter in that game might equal four heavy cruisers and their escorts. A submarine group counter will equal from six to eighteen submarines on patrol at any time. An air unit counter three to four hundred combat planes.

In War in the Pacific, you get all the singular ships down to the tuna boat level and air groups are composed of individual aircraft. Vastly more detail and chrome, but more work as well.

(in reply to DavidKittens)
Post #: 22
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/12/2022 4:10:49 PM   
the1henson

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/6/2013
Status: offline 		This is really more of an abstracted computer model/simulation of the war as opposed to a sandbox “game” experience. It makes a strong attempt to offer the player the real limitations faced by the leaders of the time, but still allows for bold experimentation within that framework such as invading India or Australia.

If you truly enjoy logistics, planning, and executing over periods of weeks, it’s a great experience. It’s not for everyone. I’m a program manager, so I’m predisposed to this sort of thinking and I use it as a way to keep my planning and execution skill sharp.

(in reply to Torplexed)
Post #: 23
RE: Building Ship + comparison to warplan - 2/14/2022 3:30:03 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

2 How does War in the pacific AE compete with war plan ? the latest strategy game is WITP more detailled and overall better or is just warplan a 2019 upgrade of the old 2008 witp ?


WarPlan Pacific is a much higher level of abstraction, but this does have its benefits.
War in the Pacific AE requires daily turns and some of those turns require more than one day of your time to do.
WarPlan Pacific uses two week turns which usually can be done in a single sitting.

So, for PBEM it means War In the Pacific AE could take many years to finish.
Most WarPlan games can be finished in 2-4 months.

(in reply to DavidKittens)
Post #: 24
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