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RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German Design [8D] - Bread (Axis) vs Beethoven (Soviet)

 
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RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 2:49:30 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Army of front the Soviets are strong!

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 91
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 6:00:15 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		End of Soviet Turn 5

Pulling back a bit in the north, 1 Panzer is isolated in Estonia:



In Smolensk I am really stacking up my defense. I have a lot of high quality units here, but bad commanders. If they can hold up ok without taking ridiculous casualties, then probably I will win the game. But if he can attack and get very high casualties against strong TOE stacked up units due to my bad leader rolls, then Germany may have a real chance. The next turn or two, in particular how effective the German infantry is at grinding, will probably determine how things go from here. I need the casualties to not be as bad as in those previous battles.



Pulling back a bit around Gomel, but mostly trying to stay out of range of the German infantry and use the swamps to stop the mobile units from advancing too quickly/easily. The obvious paths of advance are strewn with Airborne, NKVD, and cavalry to get in the way of the Panzers.



Cavalry cut off 1 Panzer north of Kiev. Sadly I could not cut off more. I have various generally weak units (mostly cavalry with some infantry further back) scattered around in the swamps to threaten to cut off the mobile units if they snake ahead to quickly.



Just a little bit of cavalry to similarly try to get in the way a bit and bee annoying. The Kirovoi Rog pocket was broken. The NKVD border guards in Kirovoi Rog have been ordered to hold out to the last man, and it is expected that they will hold for at least 5-10 turns, with heroic resistance.



You can also see here in this screenshot for the first time that I did not build forts or put units at the gates of Crimea. Why? Because I figured some Panzers would come down here, and they would end up breaking through on one of the 3-4 entrances. Once they broke through on any single one of the 3-4 entrances, then they would be able to cut off all the units defending the other 3-4 entrances, and I would end up losing 100-200k men or so for no real gain.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 92
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 6:08:23 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		My prediction for Smolensk - because of 50% CPP lose in any attack, even against weak units, German ID will lose combat capability rapidly. As a result - lack on firepower to grind through.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 93
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 6:17:51 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

My prediction for Smolensk - because of 50% CPP lose in any attack, even against weak units, German ID will lose combat capability rapidly. As a result - lack on firepower to grind through.


Yeah, that is one thing to keep in mind about my high losses on the deliberate attacks in the previous turn. Most of the German infantry that was attacking was probably in the 50-100 CPP range. But they won't always be that high. Also my supply issues will hopefully start to stabilize. They normally do and pretty soon all Soviet units have perfect supply, so they should do so as long as the supply issues are not caused by leader rolls, but instead are a temporary issue of railing the units around and new units on the map starting with low supply, and using freight for the large initial number of reinforcements rather than for supply (1 million man manpower pool!!!)

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 94
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 6:37:51 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

My prediction for Smolensk - because of 50% CPP lose in any attack, even against weak units, German ID will lose combat capability rapidly. As a result - lack on firepower to grind through.


And actually, you made me think of something.

If it indeed turns out that you are correct, and that is what happens, then I think that would suggest that one good way to buff Germany might be for them to get back 6 assault fronts in 1941.

Remember that the reason assault fronts were originally nerfed was mostly to nerf Soviets. So it may not have been needed to take Germany down from 6 to 4 assault fronts in 1941. The assault front command capacity was nerfed, so it would not be the case that Germany could have every infantry division under an assault front, just more of them than currently. That is also something that would affect balance in 1941, but not necessarily that much subsequently, and 1941 is the part where there seems to be the most obvious balance problem. Later years of the game are less certain due to fewer games having reached that period.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 95
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 6:53:46 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I was not playing this awesome game in that golden era when Axis had 6 assault forms with 12 corps capacity. I only saw it in youtube :(
You need 4 turns, 1 month!, for a division in non assault army to get to 100 CPP without! moving. This is insane in my opinion.

I would also vote for 6 assault armies (that is quick fix probably) or I would like to see dynamic CPP in attack, as we already have it in defense.
I can not imagine why panzer division, ok not panzer division as they are pretty bad :)
Why SS division with close to a 50 attack with appropriate SUs is spending 50% of its CPP to attack airborne brigade in clear hex that was already beaten 3 times and is on the edge of shattering but somehow is still holding. This is a long way to fix it probably. But I think game will evolve to that stage. Sooner or later.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/13/2022 6:58:31 PM >

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 96
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 7:37:02 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Start of Soviet Turn 6

I took 170k losses:



Despite taking high losses from lack of generals, my OOB is now up significantly above 3 million men in the field:



Looking at individual battles, the results look a bit more promising than last turn for the prospect of my losses going down. There are still plenty of battles where I am losing 100% of my men to deliberate attacks, but there are more exceptions where I am not losing so many of them any more. It seems like that is happening more in battles where I have multiple divisions rather than just 1 defending, so I may try to do that more.



Also, it seems like my supply problems are quickly disappearing now that many units have been on the map and more or less stationary for a turn or two, with more trucks being mobilized etc etc. Despite the bad leader checks, I have now reached the point where I am getting significantly more supply than "need," so within another turn or two I expect my supply issues to be essentially totally resolved.


(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 97
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 7:46:13 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Start of Soviet Turn 6

Grinding in the north. The division that I used to cut off the Panzer division is now isolated in Estonia, but that is fine. It has 5,000 men, which is less than I lose in a lot of deliberate attacks.



Smolensk fell to direct assault. I could have defended it more, but I sort of wanted him to attack there rather than other hexes. This gives a bit more time to build forts and for CPP to go up in the other hexes nearby.



More grind, no big breakthrough around Gomel:



More barely contested advance in the south:


(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 98
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 7:57:30 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Soviet Turn 6

Bread has left out a 1 CV Panzer regiment in clear terrain. This won't end well for him, at least not unless I get very bad leader rolls. Which is... entirely possible!



We'll have to have our cavalry check this out and see if we can encircle it before attacking it, and thus rout it if we can win the battle.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 99
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 8:02:43 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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Status: offline 		uh-oh. Clicking on cavalry reveals that he doesn't have any hidden units next to it, so I will be able to surround it and (hopefully) rout it.


(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 100
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 8:22:33 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		As this is a test game, can the Soviets bring forth their VVS - especially the Tactical Bombers - and set them to do ground support where the Axis has no fighter cover (or strugglesw to have it).
I am convinced there will be a German artillery destruction bonanza.

(I actually am doing that in my Soviet game and anywhere the Germans have no fighters their guns are blasted away by Il2 and Su2)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 101
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 8:26:10 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		VVS were disbanded!

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 102
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/13/2022 8:30:41 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

As this is a test game, can the Soviets bring forth their VVS - especially the Tactical Bombers - and set them to do ground support where the Axis has no fighter cover (or strugglesw to have it).
I am convinced there will be a German artillery destruction bonanza.

(I actually am doing that in my Soviet game and anywhere the Germans have no fighters their guns are blasted away by Il2 and Su2)


OK, I am deploying a few around Rostov and will test it out when he approaches.

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 103
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/14/2022 1:10:03 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		End of Soviet Turn 6

An attempt to break out the isolated unit in Estonia failed. My intel made it look like the motorized regiment was weaker than it was, plus Popov had sub-optimal leader rolls. I also continued a gradual retreat towards Leningrad.



In Smolensk I am really stacking up my defense with triple-stacked units with high defensive CVs, attempting to bring the Axis advance to as much of an outright halt as humanly possible.



Pulling back around Gomel to keep out of infantry range:



Tried to cut this off with cav, but Bread prudently had the highlighted infantry in the right place:



Cut off a motorized with cav:



Great success in the Crimea area. Budyonny's cavalry-mechanized forces cut off the German Panzer regiment and routed it, causing it to lose 117 vehicles in the battle.



Meanwhile, since Odessa has been taken, that means that the Odessa cavalry division has to spawn somewhere else. And it spawned just a few hexes away from the lead German Panzer division that had entered Crimea. So I marched it north along the coast and it cut the connection to land, and also had another cav convert the hex north-east of the motorized.

However, then I realized that the German units would probably not count as fully "isolated" due to the ferry hex. I had one relatively weak tank division that had enough MP to cut the other side of the ferry connection. I might not have sacrificed it, but the routed Panzer regiment ALSO had routed to Novotroitskoe, so I could displace it at the same time as also cutting off the other Panzer.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 104
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/14/2022 2:09:37 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Start of Soviet Turn 7



Bread inflicted another 170k losses basically just from grinding. Our total men on the map went up by 30k to just under 3.2 million, but the total size of the Red Army went down by 30k (including theater boxes etc). Will the casualties be sustainable continuing like this, or can we hold well enough despite the losses to avoid sudden death?

These are presumably still less than historical losses though, so hmm:





North grind:



2 glorious reserve activation holds in this one hex:



Gomel grind:



South (Kharkov falls):


(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 105
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/14/2022 2:47:58 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		"Upgrade"



Well, there goes half my south defense. Thanks a lot for the "upgrade," guys.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 106
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/14/2022 5:33:07 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		I am building a new cavalry division. It only costs 8 AP, which normally would be too expensive, but it is not too expensive for this game. I get AP 25 per turn, and I am getting close to running out of useful things to spend AP on, since I can't spend it on changing generals. In subsequent turns I expect to spend a lot of AP on new cavalry divisions, which will be used to harass the German Panzer divisions while they are advancing as much as possible. I can build up to 3 additional cavalry divisions each turn if I want to, until I have 74 of them.



I also am building 8x engineer-sapper regiments (1 AP each), which brings me up to the maximum of 22 allowed. The purpose of these is to assign them to forts, to make forts build up to level 3 fortification more quickly. I have disbanded all my motorized engineer-sapper battalions and also some of the non-motorized engineer-sapper battalions. Other ones that I did not disband are assigned to forts which I have been constructing in previous turns.

(in reply to RedJohn)
Post #: 107
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/14/2022 9:27:36 PM   
Lovenought

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/21/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

"Upgrade"



Well, there goes half my south defense. Thanks a lot for the "upgrade," guys.

Maybe Timoshenko just mixed up the orders and the NKVD liquidated themselves without question. It happens, with hundreds of directives going out per day.

Also, if Stavka is personally responsible for every single victory, I am horrified to imagine how many medals this poor man will be eventually forced to wear. He'll tear his spine in half!

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 108
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 12:06:32 AM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovenought

Also, if Stavka is personally responsible for every single victory, I am horrified to imagine how many medals this poor man will be eventually forced to wear. He'll tear his spine in half!


Rest assured, Comrades, that an investigation of this matter is underway. It is our sincere hope that this will persuade Stalin to replace Timoshenko with a more capable leader such as Marshal Kulik.

(in reply to Lovenought)
Post #: 109
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 12:36:01 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Start of Soviet Turn 8

Another 187k losses this turn. The size of the Red Army, both in total and on the map, remains basically the same.

The 37th Army HQ spawned near Kharkov. IIRC it is supposed to spawn somewhere around Kiev, but that is obviously not happening since the front is slightly further than Kiev...



In the south, Bread is trying to encircle my cavalry, apparently not realizing that I can build 3 new cavalry divisions each turn with my AP to replace them. I guess there is genuinely nothin better for the Romanian/Hungarian troops to do than hold those pockets though, so why not?



North grind. It's raining:



Smolensk grind. Also raining, and as you can see I have built some forts around Bryansk in previous turns:



South:


(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 110
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 12:38:38 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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Status: offline 		Forgot to mention, a German Panzer division has reached Sevastopol. However, Sevastopol is defended and has a decent defensive CV.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 111
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 1:09:19 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Our impenetrable Donbas defense begins to take shape. Undoubtedly more high quality cavalry and the like will arrive next turn to throw back the invader.


(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 112
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 3:11:15 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I feel some of the issues shown here can be solved by:

A) CCP loss on attack varies on combat ratio
B) 'Unready' units cannot flip hexes. (This stops raids by 'sacrificable units')
C) Ready Divisions under a specific CV or Personnel count as regiments for Hex Flipping. (Atm it's silly a German Regiment flips only its hex, and a Soviet unready CAV flips through ZoC)
D) Some units (too small, or too weak) do not exert ZoC to hinder enemy movement around them.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 113
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 3:18:41 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Joined: 9/20/2019
Status: offline 		I support all your suggestions, but A would probably solve a lot of issues.

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 114
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 4:33:36 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I feel some of the issues shown here can be solved by:

A) CCP loss on attack varies on combat ratio
B) 'Unready' units cannot flip hexes. (This stops raids by 'sacrificable units')
C) Ready Divisions under a specific CV or Personnel count as regiments for Hex Flipping. (Atm it's silly a German Regiment flips only its hex, and a Soviet unready CAV flips through ZoC)
D) Some units (too small, or too weak) do not exert ZoC to hinder enemy movement around them.


Nooooooooooo, don' nerf my 1 CV cavalry, noooooooooooo

And I'll have you know that not all of my cavalry is unready . A good number of them are actually (barely) "ready." Like this one, for example. All my cavalry are always on 60% TOE and permanently on refit so that they spend fewer turns depleted and more turns when they are either unready or ready and can be thrown into the gaping mauls of the Panzers.

This cavalry is at 48/49 TOE, and with 52 morale that is enough for it to be "ready." This division has also already made two sacrifices (losses) for the motherland. Hopefully many more to come!


(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 115
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 4:37:48 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I thought that this AAR is showing what is wrong with current balance/CPP/etc
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5135309

But this one. This one is a real gem! Thanks Beethoven and RedJohn. I hope developers take a closer look into current situation and players suggestions.

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 116
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/15/2022 4:40:58 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		An annoying thing happened. When I build the engineer-sapper regiments last turn, I sent them immediately to the map, without even letting them have a single turn in the strategic reserve to get replacements, so they were at 0% TOE. I thought that they could get replacements when sent to the map and assigned to STAVKA, which shouldn't be a problem because I have plenty of freight/supply/etc. However, this seems to not be possible, it sent them back to reserve at 0% TOE and now I have to wait again apparently to be able to use them. So apparently you can't do this and I will have to wait a turn before deploying them and assigning to forts



However, some engineer-sapper regiments in the Far East theater box disbanded, which means I can make some more of them now I suppose. By using these, hopefully I will be able to make some powerful level 3 forts that will stop the Axis advance in its tracks... soon...

< Message edited by Beethoven1 -- 2/15/2022 4:41:21 PM >

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 117
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/16/2022 4:46:13 PM   
RedJohn

 

Posts: 517
Joined: 9/20/2019
Status: offline 		I have just finished turn 9, and my logistics are beginning to fray. Worrisome!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 118
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/16/2022 5:49:20 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Start of Soviet Turn 9

The guilty have been punished:



My losses were worse this turn, nearly 250k. I retreated very little in the north and center, in part because it was raining, and I paid the price for that. I thought that Bread might rest his units more since it was raining but clear was forecast the next turn. As a result, the total size of the Red Army is down by about 50k (both in total and on the map), but I am still at 3.1 million on the map.



North grind:



Center grind:



South (not really a grind). Kerch, Sevastopol, and Rostov have all been more or less reached, but all stand firm. At least for now.




One reason for the relatively high losses is probably that the Axis bombers are being used and not contested at all by the non-existent Soviet Air Force. Here is one screenshot that Bread took. Although now that I look at it, maybe it is not having that much effect. It is disrupting elements, but this was with only 1 division defending. And it did not destroy all that much, considering it was 400+ German bombers bombing a single division with 0 Soviet fighter cover.


(in reply to RedJohn)
Post #: 119
RE: Of Course Not, The Entire Game Is An Anti-German De... - 2/16/2022 5:53:48 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Bread has still not eliminated heroic 5th rifle division in Bialystok pocket. We will soon liberate Minsk for +6 bonus VP.


(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 120
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