Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Odd Combat Result

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Odd Combat Result Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:39:12 AM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Ummm, this was not the expected result... Someone want to explain?




Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:39:25 AM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 2
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:49:43 AM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Turned it up to 11, throwing absolute absurdity and only a litter better.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 3
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:53:35 AM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Meanwhile




< Message edited by ImperatorAugustus -- 2/22/2022 4:54:35 AM >

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 4
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 12:47:59 PM   
Teo41_ITA

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 9/2/2021
Status: offline 		I cannot see your last image.

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 5
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 1:25:49 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		What CPP does your units have before an attack?


_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 6
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 1:39:20 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I know the Panzergrenadier component of the German forces are awful and underperform - but I am speaking of the litteral ground elements.

I suspect the Panzers or so serve little vs infantry but I am not surprised the finest German troops seem to not exactly be that dreadful or achieve grand results. At least so I experienced in my game that went til '43.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 7
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 2:03:21 PM   
K62


Posts: 666
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		What result did you expect? You can also try upgrading to the latest patch.

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 8
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:37:45 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		I'm not sure what in the beta patch will change this. I'm using the latest live on steam.

I would expect not to take the same casualties as the Soviets... Its a rifle corp that just expended most of its MP attacking and moving last turn, into a salient, supported by a tank corp with no tanks. Attacked by 9 German divisions with a ton of support artillery and many attached units. 3 of the German Divs have 90 exp. I've had cases where I've dealt 10k casualties to a rifle corp in a retreat with far less odds, and took less casualties.

I had an example posted last of the Soviet attacking me, but I realized it was not a good comparison as an artillery div was involved.

The historic case would be the Third Battle of Kharkov, where the SS corp annihilated the Soviets tank army, albeit at high losses themselves.

< Message edited by ImperatorAugustus -- 2/22/2022 4:39:24 PM >

(in reply to K62)
Post #: 9
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 4:54:48 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Just ran it again half assed. Didnt reassign the one pnz and only send 3 pnz in without attaching stuff.... Suddenly get this.

This suggests to me there is an issue with the 'over stacking rule' meanwhile the soviets don't feel this cause they can do the same size attack with 3 corps.

Tested again and even with the tank corp activating, a similar success occurs.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ImperatorAugustus -- 2/22/2022 5:25:33 PM >

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 10
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 5:05:35 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Is it repeatable, that if you attack with more units you get worse results?

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 11
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 5:24:55 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		I mean I was able to do it twice. So I assume so. The save file is linked above.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 12
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 5:39:37 PM   
K62


Posts: 666
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		Yes I think you have it right, beyond an attacking force of 3 divisions your troops will fire less.

I've also noticed you don't have a lot of artillery SUs committed to this attack. As German, if you want low casualties you have to commit a decent amount of arty and/or bombers. Otherwise at short ranges the defender fires first and you'll take casualties before your own troops can shoot back.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 13
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 5:45:11 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Still not the expected result based on the manual. The units straight up perform worse on damage done and received.

Really odd since this unit is partially surrounded.

(in reply to K62)
Post #: 14
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 5:55:08 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		In the previous battles there were more than 1100 additional artillery guns (which according to a manual suffer penalties only at close range) and + 280 AFVs.
Thus I agree with ImperatorAugustus that it is strange results

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/22/2022 5:56:37 PM >

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 15
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:02:11 PM   
K62


Posts: 666
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		The "artillery guns" are mostly low-caliber mortars. Here's how it goes when you bring in the big guy SUs.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 16
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:23:59 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Your example is not over stacked. I also achieved far higher casualties repeatedly without the guns.

(in reply to K62)
Post #: 17
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:27:09 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I run a test and got 7 arty SUs.

They are in different armies, so penalty applies.

But as we can see Soviets do not suffer more casualties but Germans do. Especially in damaged/disrupted elements.

Looks like it is not worth to commit a lot of units? 3 divisions is an optimal size?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to K62)
Post #: 18
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:31:01 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Which is odd because 3 Soviet Corps are also well into that penalty, but from what I have seen (albeit in limitation) do not suffer as much from over stacking.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 19
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:36:31 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		And all units with a corps in the same army, minimal penalty.

Even worse result. I understand that each battle is unique, just to eliminate that -36% penalty from a previous screenshot.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 20
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:42:54 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		And to complete a test
replicated K62 setup, maximum arty SU





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/22/2022 6:43:03 PM >

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 21
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 6:44:10 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		And with only 1 SU

Best results lol




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 22
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:01:16 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		What does this symbol represents? Arty?

If it is arty then with 1 SU I have 10. While with 6 or 7 SUs, only 20 or 30. What is going on there? (rounding, so it can only display 10, 20, 30 and so on?)




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/22/2022 7:02:37 PM >

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 23
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:07:06 PM   
K62


Posts: 666
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		Nice extensive tests Stamb! I think this proves both points valid. Don't over stack but, if you have to, then use arty.

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 24
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:08:18 PM   
K62


Posts: 666
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

What does this symbol represents? Arty?

If it is arty then with 1 SU I have 10. While with 6 or 7 SUs, only 20 or 30. What is going on there? (rounding, so it can only display 10, 20, 30 and so on?)





Engineer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Joint_Military_Symbology#Unit_basic_icons

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 25
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:08:21 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Sapper/Pioneer

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 26
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:13:17 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Ah, thanks for pointing it out

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 27
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:16:58 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		I mean even then thats just not the case for the Axis it seems. I obtained a much more effective result without shuffling around the limited Axis heavy guns. Sure the casualties are a bit higher on my end by percentage, but honestly irrelevant compared to properly kneecapping a corp.

(in reply to K62)
Post #: 28
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:18:09 PM   
ImperatorAugustus

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/9/2021
Status: offline 		Its cause the units are disrupted and then dont participate so they retreat instead of getting smacked with real damage.

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 29
RE: Odd Combat Result - 2/22/2022 7:30:14 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I think CPP play a huge role here, and your units have smth like 20 CPP on average.

Current CPP system is really brutal, especially for the attacker.

Feature suggestion:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5147039

_____________________________

Axis Bias mod Fanboy
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

(in reply to ImperatorAugustus)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Odd Combat Result Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.813