David Lehmann
Posts: 72
Joined: 10/10/2000
From: France
Status: offline
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Hello,
I am just wondering about the poor AT capabilities of the French tanks in SPWAW. The best tank AT gun in 1939/1940 on the French battlefield seems to be the German 37mm which is wrong. For many reasons (1-man turret ...) the German tanks might be slightly better but the 47mm guns by themselves are really better on the French side.
In SPWAW the PzIIIe has a MAXIMUM penetration of 64mm and the Somua S-35 only 57mm with the 47mm SA35 L34 (1598mm barrel) which is the best tank gun in 1940 (present on the Somua S-35, the B1bis turret and the AMC-35 for example). It penetrates 40mm /30° at 400m et 60mm /0° at 1000 m. How is then considered the MAX penetration at 1 hex range ?
This gun should not be mixed up with the 47mm SA34 L30 (shorter barrel of 1410mm) present in the turret of the B1 tank for example.
Among infantry weapons the by far best AT gun is the 47mm Mle37 L50 (2350mm barrel). And I am not even talking about the 75mm Mle1897 used in an AT role. The basic artillery Mle1897 was sometimes used but you could also find the 75mm Mle97/33 and Mle97/35 dedicated to the AT role in the BDAC (= Batterie Divisionaire anti-char = AT divisional battery for the protection of an artillery regiment). Many were still in service in the BDACs since there was a lack of 47mm AT guns to equipe all units.
Germans had 1-man turrets for their PzI and PzII (except the late war model (Luchs) with 2 men). The PzIII and PzIV had 3 men in the turret. The British Matilda I also had a 1-man turret.
On the French side all of the tanks and armored cars had a 1-man turret except :
- FCM 2C (11 men with 3 in the front turret and 1 in a rear turret)
- Laffly AM50
- Panhard 165/175
- Panhard 178
- Renault AMC-35
- And actually the SOMUA S-35's APX4CE turret is sometimes described as a "one-and-a-half-man turret", as the enlarged turret ring, compared with the APX1 found on the B1bis, allowed a crew member to provide "some" assistance to the commander/gunner/reloader.
The quality of French tank optics were not at all inferior to the German ones, this is a false statement. In fact they were of similar quality, perhaps a bit more complicated to operate.
Another surprising and common statement is about intrinsec accuracy of French guns versus German ones. Accuracy is not a matter of nationality, but only a matter of ballistics ... and all the ballistics tests I am aware of proved that the guns were very accurate. French tank guns like 47mm SA35 were superior to any German tank armament fielded in 1940. Some French tankers scored very well, others not so well. This was due to training, one-man turret etc. but the guns by themselves were totally good ones.
ANTI-TANK ARMAMENT IN FRENCH TANKS AND ARMORED CARS (all datas with AP shots) :
7.5mm Reibel MAC31
Rate of fire (shots/minute): 750
V° (m/s) : 820
Weight of the AT shell (kg) : -
Penetration : 8mm /15° at 50m
Practical AT range (m) : 50
13.2mm HotchkissM24/26
Rate of fire : 450
V° : 800
Weight of the AT shell : 0.052
Penetration : 25mm /30° at 100m ; 20mm /30° at 200m ; 20mm /0° at 500 m
Practical AT range : 200
25mm SA34 L72
Rate of fire : 30
V° : 918
Weight of the AT shell : 0.320
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
Practical AT range : 800
37mm SA18 L20
Rate of fire : 15-30
V° : 600
Weight of the AT shell : 0.390
Penetration : 18mm /30° at 400m
Practical AT range : 400
37mm SA38 L34
Rate of fire : 15-30
V° : 705
Weight of the AT shell : 0.700
Penetration : 30mm /30° at 400m
Practical AT range : 800
47mm SA34 L30
Rate of fire : 15-30
V° : 450
Weight of the AT shell : 1.480
Penetration : 25mm /30° at 400m
Practical AT range : 400
47mm SA35 L34
Rate of fire : 15-30
V° : 700
Weight of the AT shell : 1.500
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m ; 60mm /0° at 1000 m
Practical AT range : 800
75mm SA35 L17 (B1bis hull)
Rate of fire : 15-30
V° : 470
Weight of the AT shell : 6.400
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
Practical AT range : 800
75mm Mle1897
Rate of fire : up to 28
V° : 577
Weight of the AT shell : 6.400
Penetration : 80mm /30° at 500m
Practical AT range : 800
Note : the infantry 25mm Mle34 L72, 47mm Mle37 L50 and 75mm Mle1897 AT guns performances : 72mm /0° at 1000m for the 47mm AT gun, 40mm /30° at 400m for the 25mm AT gun, 80mm /30° at 500m for the 75mm AT gun.
These datas may vary slightly from one source to an other.
Best regards,
David
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"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing in the tempting place."
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1939/1940 French tanks AT performance - 
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