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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Page: [1]
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- 11/15/2003 12:56:25 AM   
afenelon

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 3/25/2001
From: Belo Horizonte
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[QUOTE=mdiehl]Well, if you call 60-100 mph slower, less durable, lower airspeed, ceiling, and dive rate "almost as good...." Seriosly, giving credit where due, the Ki-84 was a good make-up attempt. It was the equal of the F6F. It was nowhere near as good a plane as the F4U, P51, various late war UK aircraft, late-model P47s or P38s, the P63, etc., various late war German a/c (late variants of the FW190, and the TA152). The Ki-84 would have been a competitive aircraft in mid 1943. By the time it entered production, it was greatly outclassed.[/quote]

-60-100mph slower???? Where did you get those statistics.

-Here are mine:

F6F: 600km/h
Ki-84: 630km/h
F4U-1: 660km/h
P-38: 660km/h
P-47: 670km/h
P-51D: 710km/h

1mile=1,6km/h

So, the Ki-84 was 20mph faster than the Hellcat, 20mph slower than F4U-1, P-38 and P-47 and 50mph slower than the P-51. It could outdive and outclimb the P-47 and the P-38. It has very good firepower (4x20mm gun). It would be able to engage all of US prop driven fighters except, maybe the P-51D, if it had better production standards.

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 1
- 11/15/2003 1:12:27 AM   
afenelon

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 3/25/2001
From: Belo Horizonte
Status: offline
Here is the Ki-84. It´s interesting to notice that Ki-84´s tested by the USA reached 680km/h. Was it the effect of better quality gasoline????


http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/Hayate.htm

T. Koyama designed the Ki-84 to greater strength factors than any previous Japanese warplane - yet poor heat-treatment of high-strength steel had the consequence that the landing gears often snapped. Progressive deterioration in quality control meant that pilots never knew how individual aircraft would perform, whether the brakes would work, and even whether - in attampting to intercept B-29 Superfortresses over Japan - they would be able to climb high enough.

Despite these problems the Hayate was essentially a superb fighter - a captured Ki-84-1a was to outclimb and outmanoeuvre a P-47 Thunderbolt, and a P-51.

The first batches were sent to China, where the 22nd. Sentai, when equipped with the new fighter, were able to fly rings around Chennault's 14th. Air Force.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki-84.html

The Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate (Gale) was numerically the most important fighter serving with the Japanese Army Air Force (JAAF) during the last year of the Pacific War, and was probably the best Japanese fighter aircraft to see large-scale operation during this period of the war. The Hayate was fully the equal of even the most advanced Allied fighters which opposed it, and was often their superior in many important respects. It was well armed and armored, was fast, and was very maneuverable. Although it was generally outnumbered by Allied fighters which opposed it, it nevertheless gave a good account of itself in battles over the Philippines, over Okinawa, and over the Japanese home islands. So desperate was the need for Ki-84s in the last months of the war, Japan was building underground factories with a planned rate of 200 aircraft per month.

The FRANK later appeared in the battle for Okinawa, serving with the 101st, 102nd, and 103rd Hiko Sentais. Two new Sentais, the 111th and the 200th were activated with Hayates. The Hayates were used for long-range penetration missions, fighter sweeps, strafing, interception and dive-bombing missions with considerable success. The Ki-84 proved faster than the P-51D Mustang and the P-47D Thunderbolt at all but the highest altitudes. At medium altitudes, the FRANK was so fast that it was essentially immune from interception. The climb rate was exceptionally good, 16,400 feet being attained in 5 minutes 54 seconds, which was superior to that of any opposing Allied fighters. The Ki-84 had a close resemblance to the Ki-43 Hayabusa, which caused many Allied fighter pilots to confuse it with the earlier Nakajima fighter during the stress of combat. Many an American pilot, having sighted a Japanese fighter he believed to be a Ki-43 and salivating at the prospect of a quick and easy kill, suddenly found he had latched onto a different bird entirely. The Ki-84 even did well at the fighter-bomber role. On April 15, 1945, a flight of eleven Hayates from the 100th Sentai made a surprise air attack on American airfields on Okinawa, damaging or destroying a substantial number of aircraft on the ground. However, eight of the Hayates were destroyed in the attack, and one made a forced landing on a small islet near Kyushu.

However, most of the defects with the Ki-84 can be laid to poor quality control during manufacture, especially during the last few months of the Pacific war. When the Ki-84 was being designed, emphasis had been placed on ease of production, and the manufacture of the Ki-84 required less than half the tooling needed by the Ki-43 and Ki-44 which preceded it. However, many experienced workers had been drafted into the military, and this loss, acting in concert with the accelerated rates of production ordered by the Japanese Ministry of Munitions, resulted in a steady drop in quality standards of both the engine and the airframe of the Hayate as the war progressed. The performance and reliability of production Hayates was seldom as good as that of the service test machines. As the quality of the workmanship steadily deteriorated, the performance of the Hayate steadily declined as production progressed, with later machines having successively poor and poorer performance and mechanical reliability. The hydraulic and fuel pressure systems were both poorly designed and were subject to frequent failures. The wheel brakes were notoriously unreliable, and the metal of the landing gear struts was often inadequately hardened during manufacture, which made them likely to snap at any time. This caused many Hayates to be written off in landing accidents, without ever having been damaged in combat.

http://www.214th.com/ww2/japan/ki-84/

The Ki-84 Type 4 Hayate (Gale) was "the most outstanding Jap Army Fighter and far ahead of the Oscar, Tony and Tojo... potentially the most dangerous Japanese army fighter plane," according to a mid-1945 U.S. AAF evaluation. The Frank was one of the most formidable Japanese aircraft of the war, being able to outclimb and outmanueuver both the U.S. P-47N Thunderbolt and the P-51H Mustang fighters. It was also employed as a fighter-bomber.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/nakaki84.html

From the first day that the Hayate was encountered over China, to the last day over Japan, this aircraft was respected by the Allied pilots. And with good reason, for this fighter combined most of the virtues of Japanese aircraft without the vices. It was well armed, maneuverable, well protected, and good performance.
In March 1944 the first unit operatin gthe hayate was pitted against the US 14th Air Force over China, proving that it could compete with the best of the Allied fighters. Some five weeks later these units were transferred to the Philippines, where ten Sentais (Squadrons/units) were to fight a defensive war. Outnumbered, the Ki-84's couldn't prevent the fall of the Philippines to Allied forces, and had to retreat once more. During this period the value of the Hayate was beyond any doubt, and the japanese decided to open other production facilities for it.
The production of the Hayate was put under great strain by bombings of the US 20th Air Force which operated Boeing B-29's. One of the raids destroyed the factory where most engines for the hayate were produced, and the production never reached the same levels afterwards. Also workmanship suffered from the constant draws made by the Army, which was randomly performed under even marksmen. Quality dropped sharply, but even a worsening quality couldn't throw the hayate from it's first place among the Japanese aircraft. During the Okinawa campaign and in the defense of the homeland the Hayate still was the most succesful Japanese aircraft.
After the War flight tests were conducted between Allied and japanese aircraft, and it turned out that the Ki-84 could outperform the best Allied fighters. The North American P-51D Mustang and the Republic P-47D Thunderbolt were both left behind, the first with 3 Mph (5 km/h), the second with 22 Mph (35 km/h). The speed reached by the Ki-84 was 427 Mph (687 km/h) at an altitude of 20,000 ft (6.096 m).

(in reply to mdiehl)
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