Broken scenarios

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Broken scenarios

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Broken scenarios - 9/2/2001 3:29:00 AM

Dean Robb

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Va Beach, VA USA
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One for the code warriors: Whyfor are so many of the included scenarios/campaigns now screwy? Stuff that played very well under 5.x are now wierd under 6.1. To wit: Enemy units are appearing waaaaay behind player lines. Often in my initial setup area! Now, I know from playing these before that that is not supposed to happen - and it's really rather seriously frustrating to have major German armored forces (multiple platoons of PzKw-IVs, for example) pop up in my rear areas. And I'm having lots of trouble with spotting units I should be able to see. In one scenario, I ran a jeep through an entire mortar battery, finding their sandbags but no mortars. Next turn - the mortars fired (new smoke!) and I *STILL* couldn't find them with my jeep even though I was *LITERALLY* atop them. Finally, my infantry found and destroyed them. Now - I know vehicles are harder to spot from than on foot. But a JEEP? ON TOP of a firing mortar squad, next to two others, and I STILL counldn't see them? Exsqueeze me??? Bunkers are another issue - while I can handle with no problem the concept that they should be hard to see; it's pretty hard for me to accept that I cannot find them at all, regardless of how many times they fire, until I have a unit right on top of them. If I can see the muzzle flashes, I should be able to see the bunker itself well enough to target it (and not just the hex w/indirect fires). Now some bunkers are going to be perfectly camoflaged and difficult to spot; but not every one. I've had tanks parked on top of log bunkers and not been able to spot them (when in reality I should have been crushing them with my weight!). Methinks the chances to see them should be much higher - esp. with Limited Intel off. I'm also finding it much harder to see tanks, etc. in the open that should be reasonable. Large, moving armored vehicles in the open should be relatively easy to spot - from their exhaust smoke, if nothing else. Yet I'm constantly being surprised by them. Since when did they develop stealth tanks with awesome mufflers?? And it almost looks like the old "AI can spot your arty" "feature" has resurfaced - I've several times endured multi-turn bombardments on my artillery and support units with no spotter (verified by checking the after-game map and constant patrols in-game) to call the accurate arty in. Something has obviously gone a bit sour between v5.0 and v6.1 in this matter - perhaps a FoW issue? Whatever it is; it's MOST frustrating!

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- 9/2/2001 3:31:00 AM

Redleg

Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
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I have deleted old scenarios from my program. I'll concentrate on newer ones and let the old ones fade into history.

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- 9/2/2001 6:00:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
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The icons in the game in the neat little hexagons fool one into thinking that there is such a clumping of men into "units" and "hexes" in the real word. IT tends to make one doubt how real and how thick the fog of war is. 50 yards is a big area and a handful of guys can find places to hide that would surprise you. Youhave far more situational awareness in the game athan any real commander. One Marine LTCOL I shared the game with laughed that he wished he could find is OWN troops...let alone the enemy as well in real life

One of the thing we have tried to do witht he game is balance uncertainty with playability. THose who think interms of board games and "if I have LOS I see him and shoot him" will find LOS comes and goes as units gain and lose situational awareness. Right now tied strictly to suppression. You will find if you rally troops ie get them to stick their head up and look around they will will spot more. If all your troops with LOS are suppressed, then teh enemy will melt away more. THis more pronounced now, intentionally. The Fog of War is thick...turn off the prefrenece for limited intelligence if you want things to be more consistant

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- 9/2/2001 7:32:00 AM

Dean Robb

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Va Beach, VA USA
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I understand FoW pretty well (note that I've got a 400 serial number!) and all the factors, including the God perspective and SA; and I do play with Limited Intel off. I'm just saying that I think it's been overdone at this point; some things that a blind person should be able to see aren't being seen regardless of their suppression level. Even if you're surpressed you're going to hear a roaring diesel engine and clanking treads - tracked vehicles are anything but quiet. Not mention if he fires...muzzle flash/smoke; exhaust smoke; backblast dust; etc. etc.
And I think that bunkers are now too hard to see, especially if they're firing - even the non-targeted units can't see the bunker until they're pretty much atop it. Yes, they should be difficult; no, they shouldn't be impossible. Especially after they fire, the troops are looking for something and are much more likely to see the bunker from range. Surely binoculars are not such a rarity that nobody has any; and surely every bunker-digger isn't the world's greatest camofluage artist! And SA issues just don't factor into why I can drive all over a 3-squad mortar battery and never see the mortars even though they're firing, in open terrain, and I'm in the same hex as one of them. Come on...I just can't imagine how (with no suppression) you wouldn't notice a bunch of mortars going off a couple of dozen yards away, from a jeep!

[ September 01, 2001: Message edited by: Dean Robb ]

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- 9/2/2001 4:05:00 PM

skukko

Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
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Howdy

IMHO guys who are fired and killed with the MG-bunker surely knew where the fire came, especially if some men survived first burst

But what it comes to older scenarios: So many infantry rules have been changed/added, and they affect to so many areas that some older scenarios simply are "overdone" now with the more sophisticated battle-code. This means that when designing and testing scenario in the earlier version it might have been too easy to play. Usuall and easiest solution to make it harder is to edit units experience and morale to higher values. This is good way to do it but it reflects to the future releases of mech.exe; -higher exp now gives certain invisibility. ( This has ruined my own interests to play pbems ... might be that in the future again, but now...nada. ) Above mentioned exp-rising with the bunkers common toughness have reflected to some older scenarios by the way to making them harder. Not to mention OOB -changes. mosh

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- 9/2/2001 10:13:00 PM

Redleg

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Seems to me that every new feature that is added works to the detriment of the AI which cannot deal with these things. Scenarios getting dated or not working as they once did is a small enough price to pay for progress and enhanced playability.

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- 9/2/2001 10:47:00 PM

MacCready

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
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I find myself playing only online or e-mail against humans using spwaw these days,though the mega campaigns are good for single players

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- 9/3/2001 9:30:00 AM

Dean Robb

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Va Beach, VA USA
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A major point is being missed, here. These "older" scenarios are all v5.0+. You know - the ones that come in the download, not the freelanced ones from the Arsenal. They *should* work. The *biggest* problem with the v5.0+ scenarios and *campaigns* is that entry points for enemy reinforcements and follow-on forces is broken: The units are coming in well behind player lines, often in the setup areas. I've played most of these scenarios before v5.3+ and the enemy forces *didn't* appear behind my lines; and the authors of some of them have confirmed that it's incorrect behavior. My point is this: One of the updates has broken the included scenarios/campaigns that come with v5.0. I'm still of the opinion that FoW is overdone at this point, but that's not a make-break issue. The broken scenarios/campaigns, IMO, ARE a major issue. If they're included in the basic game, they need to work.

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