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Will MCLV disc V.7 OOBs?

 
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Will MCLV disc V.7 OOBs? - 9/6/2001 11:09:00 PM   
Anonymous Sender

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: nowhere special
Status: offline 		I've poked-around some old posting and have seen the question alluded to but never answered: I know MCLV will come with SPWAW v7.0; will it also come with the v7.0 OOBs? Please dear God say yes...

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- 9/6/2001 11:19:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		Yes.

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- 9/6/2001 11:44:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		See the response I gave on the ver7 and lost victories thread below - the answer is we are still thinking that through. This is a "be careful what you ask for" thing becasue the MCLV has been in teh works for many many months and is made using the "old" OOBs (becasue that was what they had when they started many moons agao) Changes to weapons in the new OOBs "filter through" because teh game always goes tot eh OOB to get weapon data. But unit data is saved in teh scenario files, so changeing the OObs doesn;'t necessarily change teh scenario unit data. The new OObs have tweaks to the armor values (explained in the thread ref'd above) which would not be used by the MC, but would appear in the encyclopedia, a potential source of confusion and time spent in teh help desk and here explaining why the game data and encyclopedia data don.t match. So I don't know. The options are to keep the current OOBs in the MCLV, or go with the new OObs and tell people to "deal with it" being slightly out of synch. In any case the "new" oobs will be part of teh v7.0 download, so it ultimately will be up to you which set to use, but be advised the MC scenarios were designed and tested long before teh new OObs were available, and SP is not a game designed to be as "moddable" as we would wish... A chance for you guys to chime in...the original OOBs that will be consitant? or go withthe latest and greates, even if the scenrios can't be updated and retested? I personally lean to number 1...every little inconsistency is always thrown back at us as a "bug" and perceptions of "bugs" (even if they are not) cost sales - like the gent who thought that LBM problems would spoil game play... Its amazing how word spreads and mutates. Criticism is good, but careless criticism does FAR more harm than good, costing me time with damage conrol in the forums that could be spent on CL development... The openness of some of the forums is contrasted with other Matrix forums. This is experimental to a certain degree. How much does the time invested in frequent, open, critical, discussion actually help...or hurt...sales? Among "educated" frequent participants it builds a strong bond, but the casual, infrequent passerby (as several have posted) get concerned to teh point of not buying if the "buzz" on a board is too negative. Its possible for the infrequent casual observer, who doesn't have time to delve into teh nuances of teh board, simply comes away thinking that that game is too hard, or has too many bugs to be any fun...and walks on by... In many ways you 'hard corps' posters ARE our PR depeartment. but you only represent a small pool of potential sales. I personally htink that open communication is good, the vast majority of potential customers aren' interested in having to root through hundreds of posts a week to keep up with what is going on, and whether a criticism is serious, or just a minor "constructive" thing. Bottom line, with the "privledge" of free speach here pretty much as you please, comes a responsibility that regular posters here can have a NEGATIVE impact on game sales, and basically kill teh goose before it lays the golden egg... Criticsm is welcome, but so are AAR's and "success stories" about the good as well as the bad. The ultimate future of many of Matrix "experiments" depends on the bottom line. In the long un we can't do things that hurt sales, or are self-destructive in time allocation. the next 6 months will be a critical time for us. 2-6 games could potentially become available in that time and our future success will be set up based on how well those games are received by YOU FOLKS. You don't have to lie, or 'rose color' things, but please be responsible in your criticsm! DOuble check your facts, if you think something is REALLY broke, send a private message or drop an email before you decalare the sky to be falling for some reason. We are on the brink of really great things, but wargamers can be fickle, so is your right! But be aware of the impact you can have, and what is in the best interests of wargamings future in the long run.

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- 9/7/2001 12:03:00 AM   
Anonymous Sender

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: nowhere special
Status: offline 		Paul, my chiming-in goes as follows: Include both OOBs; have the "original" one used with the making of MCLV be the default install and have v7 OOBs on disc to install at owner's discretion with a little warning message about possible incompatabilities w the MC. If that's not feasible, then I say just go ahead and include the v7 OOBs! Truth be told, I am buying MCLV because I want SPWAW v7.0 on a pre-packaged CD-ROM disc and it's also a great way to show my support for Matrix in a way that really matters - money! The idea of the MC sounds neat but I've always been a long WWII-campaign guy myself; if I really like MCLV then I'll look at MCNA...but what I WANT is SPWAW v7.0 with v7.0 OOBs on single disc. But that's just me.

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- 9/7/2001 12:33:00 AM   
Grumble

 

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From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
quote:

You don't have to lie, or 'rose color' things, but please be responsible in your criticsm! DOuble check your facts, if you think something is REALLY broke, send a private message or drop an email before you decalare the sky to be falling for some reason. We are on the brink of really great things, but wargamers can be fickle, so is your right! But be aware of the impact you can have, and what is in the best interests of wargamings future in the long run.

Shack. WARNING About to sprain my arm patting myself on the back WARNING
I've posted a few times about the difference between "Whining" and actual real problems to be sorted. I've seen in the two or so years I've been on this forum, that many of the "problems" are:
1- Didn't know that issue is adjustable with the preference screen
2- "The other side's too good." AKA The Allied/Axis bias syndrome.
3- Relying on some secondary source material, some questionable, as God's own truth and belittling arguments to the contrary.
4- Flamers/Trolls and other such bottom-feeders.
Before thousands respond saying "how else can I get questions answered?", my point especially concerning #1 above is there's a way to ask if this is a design choice, simple oversight, or something one doesn't know how to change. Yelling on the forums that "this game sucks because of xxxx" is what I object to.

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Post #: 5
- 9/11/2001 2:04:00 AM   
Anonymous Sender

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: nowhere special
Status: offline 		Since there has been minimal chiming-in, I'll chime in a second time I would like to see both OOBs included, or if that's not possible, then go with the v7 OOBs and simply advise of possible minor inconsistancies.

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- 9/11/2001 2:32:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		Unfortunately many folks don't read the forum here and live to find inconsistencies to post about The new OOBs will be on the disk, I just don't know yet if they will be installed as the "default" yet. Finishing them would help

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- 9/11/2001 2:48:00 AM   
Anonymous Sender

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: nowhere special
Status: offline 		LOL, yes I can understand both your points... it all sounds great! can't wait to try MCLV out!

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Post #: 8
- 9/11/2001 4:53:00 AM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		from what I do know Lost Vic can be played with new OOBs and mech... but then again what do I know ?? mosh

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Post #: 9
- 9/11/2001 6:54:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Is there a way to determine which OOB is used with which Sanerio (damn someday I'll learn to spell that word)[game], campain and Mega Campain? This should relieve some confusion (I'm so comfused) and allow the use of the OOB Manager more effectivly. Well at least I would know which OOB to use with each game. Keep up the good work Matrix.

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- 9/11/2001 7:01:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		No- unfortunately the game has not been designed with OOB swaps at heart. For the most part the packaged scenarios are working with the 5.2 OOBs that are still with us in 6.1 It will be a maor project to convert all the existin scenarios to ver 7, but hopefully if enough folks take up one or two, they will get done in time.

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- 9/12/2001 8:19:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
No- unfortunately the game has not been designed with OOB swaps at heart. For the most part the packaged scenarios are working with the 5.2 OOBs that are still with us in 6.1 It will be a maor project to convert all the existin scenarios to ver 7, but hopefully if enough folks take up one or two, they will get done in time.
I was thinking that if I know which scenarios are good with which OOB I could make sure that I used the correct OOB when playing the game, thus elimanating potential problems. And elimanating the the need to covert all the scenarios to a newer OOB. But since you are telling me that most of the scenarios will run correctly under OOB 5.2, it is a non problem. Thanks Paul.

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- 9/12/2001 9:08:00 PM   
gnoccop

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 7/26/2001
From: Cento, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
No- unfortunately the game has not been designed with OOB swaps at heart. For the most part the packaged scenarios are working with the 5.2 OOBs that are still with us in 6.1 It will be a maor project to convert all the existin scenarios to ver 7, but hopefully if enough folks take up one or two, they will get done in time.
Can I help you in converting some (1 or 2) scenarios? Just say me how can i do

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Post #: 13
- 9/15/2001 8:12:00 PM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Howdy Before you start to roam those older scenarios with new mech's and OOBs, let me say this:: In most situations you'll reset AI. Scenario looses for AI; reaction times, stance(defend vs advance), objects(but rarely). And as this is not enough; -follow waypoint -order get loosed. Lastly: If scenario had some odd happenings before, openeing and saving it will Defenatly get them to all folks to see. Converting scenarios should be done by the people who created them, (or might be that even last tester can do it). But all in all: you'll have to be designer and you'll have to have knowledge of misbehavior of editor. Don't forget that scenario-designer have to give you clear 'GO' before doing it. sorry. mosh

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